Exchange by Orange of digital satellite receivers

[PeteinHeusse]

Hi,

Some time ago, on a different thread, I mentioned that as part of our Orange adsl package, we received a digital satellite receiver. This worked fine on our dish, lined up to Atlantic Bird 3 at 5 degrees West. Subsequently we had both an email and a letter informing us that the receiver would be changed from the existing Opentech TVS 70 to a new Samsung SHD85. This duly arrived and the old box had to be sent back. The new box has TV via ADSL and satellite capabilities.

I eagerly set up the new box only to find out that it must be connected to an ethernet port on the Livebox, despite the fact that we do not receive TV via adsl and confusingly to set up the receiver I had to disable the TV option on the Livebox! The receiver will NOT function unless it is connected via the ethernet cable. Unfortunately our TV is in the opposite corner to our livebox. A solution offered by Orange is to purchase 'Liveplugs' so the receiver can connect to the livebox without the need for a fifteen metre ethernet cable. There is no way we can justify paying for these and the cable looks a cheaper option. On the plus side the SHD85 did come with an HDMI cable, shame we don't have an HD ready tv!!!

However, our (english maison secondaire) neighbours have recently changed their old brico bought receiver for a Sky box. I persuaded them to let me have the box and it now happily receives French tv, although as it has no card slot, and I can't use the Orange viewing card. (and if Martin reads this, the box has lots of preprogrammed satellites and is USAL's ready).

I was wondering if anyone else was as dissapointed with the new box as I was? Or am I the only one with an Orange sat box? Certainly the quality of the new box has not gone down well with some posters on a French 'Orange tv' forum that I looked at today.

Pete

[Pierre ZFP]

Can't you just send the new box back and hang on to the old one?  It seems that you were perfectly happy with that and I'm sure that Orange couldn't care either way.

[Martin963]

Does sound a bit high-handed on the part of Orange.

TBH I often think that all these offers are aimed at young people living in cramped flats where there's room for a TV, a mobile phone,  a computer,  and Little Else.

I would be very fed up had this happened to me.

[BJSLIV]

I often think that all these offers are aimed at young people living in cramped flats

Or brand new properties built to the new wiring spec with a Comms socket in every room.

[Quillan]

I have to say that I have this new box but have not been able to use it because of it having to be connected to the livebox. I have opted for the liveplug and am eagerly awaiting its arrival (tomorrow perhaps). The cable you have been given is only a standard Cat5 Ethernet cable, you can get a 30M length for £2.80 and a 50M for £14.99 on Ebay plus postage. You can probably source it in France if you search on the Internet (I just found one on Ebay France 25M for 21 Euro delivered). The colour coding is nothing more than a way or ensuring you plug it in to the right sockets. You can have a maximum length of 152M for a Cat5 cable, if you are joining two together the rough rule is knock 10M off for every joint although I have seen cable runs over 200M working OK.

PS. I used Cat5 Ethernet on Ebay France to find it.

Hope that helps.

[PeteinHeusse]

Hi,

Thanks for the replies.

Pierre; as far as I can tell, Orange are insisting on having the old box back for 'recycling'. They have even gone as far as to supply a pre paid label to stick on the box so you can return it. If you do not they will apparently charge you for the old box, which seems strange to say the least.

Martin; yes I am fed up!!!

Quillan; thanks for advice and searching for the cable. It's an option I can look at but I'm reluctant to have cables trailing cross doorways. It would also mean having the sat cable trailing cross the living room.

Pete

[Quillan]

You could try Ebay (France) for the Liveplug although considering Orange send it for free it depends on how much you pay on Ebay + Delivery.

[BJSLIV]

When I last looked Orange were charging 69Euros for a pair of Liveplugs.

[Quillan]

With a little bit of searching I discovered that they are actually made by Devolo, the HD version is the Dlan 200 AV (info HERE) which sells for about 118 Euros on Amazon but its 99 Euros including delivery on Orange. The non HD version is also made by Devolo and can be bought again on Amazon for 36.40 Euros when its 69 Euros on Orange. The only thing I would worry about personally is if there is ever a fault, bearing in mind that you are renting both the Livebox and the decoder (the latter FOC). To be honest a lot of companies produce this type of kit and I have seen several types at Auchan in Perpignan and they all seem to be around the same price as Orange +/- 10 Euros so I don't think Orange are charging over the top. I don't like the idea of having to shell out money but whats a fella to do, if I want it to work I need to have this kit.

Pete, I'll let you know how I get on with mine and what stations etc I get when its working and then you will have some hard facts to help you decide.

[PeteinHeusse]

Hi,

Yes, I think it was 69 Euros that I saw on the Orange site too, about 60 Euros too much right now. I will look at Ebay France for a couple of Liveplugs though at the moment I don't have a lot of time to watch TV at all, let alone French TV, so it's not a priority.

I do wonder, having looked through the postings on the French 'Orange TV' forums, whether there will be movement on this problem from Orange. A lot of posters have found that their dishes must be absolutely spot on alignment, or they lose channels. This leads me to surmise that the tuner is not very sensitive, perhaps because it has been constructed to a budget which must have made provision for the decoder to include ADSL and possibly cutting back on it's satellite component.

Perhaps I'm living in vain hope, but they've changed it once.....

Pete

[PeteinHeusse]

Hi,

Sorry Quillan, our posts crossed in the ether (net). If I could find someone with either long ladders to get up to our eaves or a crawler ladder for the roof (the AB 3 dish is high up on our end wall) I (or perhaps someone with more of a head for heights than me) would take both dishes down (there's an old analogue Astra dish there too) and I would mount the AB3 dish more conveniently above our Sky dish and set it to either Astra 19E or Hotbird 13E as you can pickup many more channels.

On AB3 I have 34 channels with the Samsung box, though because we do not pay a subscription some of these are scrambled. Let us know how you get on.

Pete

[Quillan]

You get a card with the new decoder, its tucked inside the front cover of the instruction book. We had to put a 49 Euros deposit down to get it but at least (in theory) you get it back in my case after 12 months (because of my contract) should I return the decoder. You might have got yours free as its an upgrade.

[PeteinHeusse]

Hi Quillan,

Yes, we got a card with the original digibox and I'm sure we paid the same 49 Euros deposit. We were told to keep the card and use it with the new Samsung box. (Would you believe they even asked for the scart lead back as well as the remote and old box?)  As I said earlier, the Porty II box I aquired from our neighbours doesn't unfortunately have a card slot. If I could afford a receiver with a slot I would get one!!

Pete

[Quillan]

Well Pete my Liveplugs arrived yesterday and didn't work until I remembered something you mentioned about turning off the TV on the Livebox to get the yellow port to work with the live box. No information on that in the instructions. The other thing that caught me out was the card, it kept saying to put it in when it was. Silly me how was I to know you have to put it in upside down. Didn't realise they use bar codes on the card instead of the chip like Sky or is there a chip that you can't see?

Setting up was easy enough but I have to say I am a bit disappointed. It takes for ever to start up from standby. It seems to download something prior to the picture coming on. It seems to be getting the TV schedule via Internet because as you 'down page' it has to load the next page which take 2 or 3 seconds. I can't get 24 hours in advance either. I do get a shed load of French channels, some German, Arabic, Polish etc although I didn't notice any porn channels, really [;-)].

I can't order a film because my Internet speed is too low so that does prove they send the films via the internet. The remote is pretty useless as well and difficult to get a two number channel selected using the numbered buttons' Its also extremley directional, you have to point it exactly at the decoder. Luckly I have a universal remote that I have programmed up for the decoder which works fine so it must be the Orange remote thats iffy. There are a few Orange film channels which are free (bar one that you need to subscribe to) and whilst I have original language activated I have yet to watch a film in English or get English subtitles with French spoken which is what I really wanted to help with my French.

To be honest in my situation I feel the French technology has a long way to go. My old Panasonic Sky box (10 years old now) is streets ahead of the Orange box in its versatility, response speed and ease of use.

You can't use the Orange box even after setting up without the Ethernet connection or the decoder card installed even for TNT. Considering its costing me 10 Euros a month I think I will keep it for 12 months then dump it for something different, its still cheaper than buying a proper TNT satellite receiver.

How does my description stand up to your old Orange box i.e. was that slow as well etc?

[Martin963]

Only just cheaper Quillan  (TNTparSat boxes were €139 when I last looked,  and work for four years).

I think it does prove that Canal + would be coming - in your set up - via the internet and not via the sat,  as discussed a while back with reference to that EPG being carried on Canal + analogue.

What you write is very useful,  as it seems to confirm what I've felt ab initio,  that TV via a phone line is simply not up to the job in many rural areas.   I know people swear by the internet,   but I imagine they are near towns with excellent ADSL connections;   as you've found,  a sat box is a far better choice in many rural areas - no drop outs,  good pic quality,  faster channel changes.

The ADSL providers are being a bit economical with the truth in my view,  particularly in a country like France where so much of the population is still in the countryside.

So thanks for posting your experiences.

[Quillan]

Ah, sorry. The pay to view rental films (you hire the film for 48 hours or you can buy it outright I asume that dumps it to your private section of the server) I can't get as they have to be sent to me, when you try to access them it says the speed is to long and that the service is not available to me. The Canal+ channel, there is but one or so it says is like the Orange film channel, you have to subscribe to get it and it says so and I can do that if I wish. Same with the football channel. I'm still looking for the rugby channel. Likewise the recorder does not work, again ADSL not fast enough, because the program is dumped on to the server and you play it back via the internet connection.

[PeteinHeusse]

Hi Quillan,

Well, I think that you were as confused as I that to get the decoder to work you must turn the tv/ethernet option off!! The card thing threw me too, but I think they have the chip reader on the base of the unit (really good for cooling!!)

Yes, I also think it downloads tv guide info via the adsl, I'm sure there is activity from the 'red' port when you are calling guide pages. I assume you are using Hotbird 13E? I can't try this unless I move our Sky dish (yes I have moved it before and got good quality signals from Astra 19E and Hotbird) and to be honest (a) it's a lot of hassle to set up both the dish, tv and decoder and (b) I panic about getting it back on Astra for the OH's soaps!! Never, ever noticed any porn channels on either satellite [;-)]

Unless you have a Cinema bouquet I think the free films will dissapear eventually, and I agree with the subtitle/language options.

Yes, the technology is archaeic, (though if the box is made by Samsung surely the technology is not French?).

Both the old Opentech box and the Porty II (caravan) box are more versatile, quicker and more sensitive than the load of c**p Orange seem to be content to give people. Oh for some money, a dish motor, 0.1 LNB, Technomate blind search receiver........... 

Pete

[Danny]

perhaps this might be useful for those with Orange TV by sat

http://www.orange.fr/bin/frame.cgi?u=http%3A//assistance.orange.fr/home_tv_adslsat.php%3Fdub%3D2%26

or this

http://assistance.orange.fr/telechargement/pdf/Guide_TV_OrangeSAT.pdf

sorry if you already have this but I thought it might be useful...

Danny

[Quillan]

Thanks for that Danny. I was a bit worried about the list of channels which at first glance seem quite limited but perhaps they are the official ones as there are a lot more you can see including BBC World for instance. These other channels are probably standard on a decoder that does not use a card as well.

Thanks for the opportunity to swap notes Pete. I bought a cheap dish from Mr Bricomarche for 39.99 which works OK. The only problem was the bracket and bolts cost more than the dish but it works fine!

[PeteinHeusse]

Ok, I'm going slightly off topic but.........

My plan is now this, I plan on buying a motorised system (dish, wall bracket, lnb, motor and Technomate receiver with 2 card slots, about £140 all in, thanks to my Mum's Xmas generosity) and mothballing the Orange decoder until a future date.

I do however have a couple of thoughts, if the Technomate receiver has two card slots can it (a) use the Orange viewing card (which I intend to activate on Hotbird)  and (b) will it take the current Sky viewing card in the other?

I have a feeling that the answer to the latter will be negative, but as it only activates Sky3 and channel 5 derivative channels I'm not too bothered. If this goes to plan (and my other half approves/doesn't find out) I'm going to move the Sky box into one of the downstairs bedrooms anyway, where we sometimes have friends to stay.

Whilst still on the Orange decoder attached to your livebox on the other side of the room thread, does anyone know if those wireless video senders would connect to the tv and sat receiver via the scart socket? If so they could be a cheaper alternate to the 'liveplugs'

Lidl have a pair of videosenders on offer this week for 29 Euro's I think!

Pete 

[Martin963]

Certainly Sky Cards would work in a Dragon CAM for a while, I don't know if they still do (but if it helps I will try it out and see) but in your case it would depend what the software on the cardslot of your Technomate is actually capable of (I'm assuming it's patchable, if it isn't then I doubt it's going to work at all).

As to the Orange card, if they're as tightly controlled as the TNTparSat cards from Canalsat, then I doubt it'll work. These TNTparsat cards did work for a bit in Viaccess CAM's (v3) but Canalsat subsequently implemented the box-to-card pairing and stopped all that, in flagrant contravention of EU law.

The Sky in another CAM/box set-up is not ideal as a) Sky can stop it at any time by implementing *their" box/card pairing, and b) because there's a risk that the card will lose its authorisation by not being in an official Videoguard box.

[PeteinHeusse]

Thanks for that Martin. On reflection after reading your reply I think I'll forget about trying the Sky card in the Technomate. It now remains to decide on a one card slot receiver or perhaps just a free to air. I think there was only about a £10 price difference but I'll see, especially as the cost may reduce on Monday next after the reduction of VAT (!)

I did find a pair of video senders which connected via scart sockets but they were nearly as costly as the Live Plugs, so I think we can forget that route.

Pete