Broadband availability

[mint]

I seem to remember that there is a site somewhere where you can input your postcode and the information about availability of broadband comes up.  Or did I just dream that?

Isn't there a place where they tell you whether you are dégroupée or not and weird and wonderful information like that can be obtained?

Danny, are you about to throw some light on this complex subject?[:D]

[thunderhorse]

All here.

[Gardengirl]

This site may speak with forked tongue!

[suein56]

What makes you think that?

Sue

[mint]

Thank you, Thunderhorse.  Alas, can't get my answer because we do not yet own the property and the previous owner has gone back to the UK therefore no phone number available.

But very grateful and will at least be able to find out further down the line.

[AnOther]

[quote user="suein56"]What makes you think that?[/quote]Because it is not necessarily based on fact but sometimes on guestimates by FT.

Example:

My line currently shows 4938m and 59dB attenuation whereas the truth is it's probably about 3700m and 47dB.

ISP's can only offer you a package (speed) based on the numbers. The practical outcome in my case being that I had a good 2mb connection until FT, for whatever reason, changed the numbers - not the actual line.

Telespit looked at the numbers, decided that all their problems were down to a line which could not support 2mb, despite the fact that it had for 2.5 years, and ordered FT to downgrade it to 512kb from which there was no way back.

Now that is all any ISP will offer me however FT/Orange have miraculously managed 1mb, funny that.

So don't hang your hat on the results from the likes of degrouptest.

[Gardengirl]

Sue, for technicalities see above - I know nothing of this, but we were shown as being whichever, but it turned out we were the other. That sounds like double dutch, must be due to sleeping well last night! Anyway, we weren't what the test showed us as being. Talking with neighbours who already had broadband and then going to suppliers made that clear. We now have it installed and it's lovely to have it - beats walking to the internet cafe and paying a fortune there!

[sid]

[quote user="AnOther"][quote user="suein56"]What makes you think that?[/quote]Because it is not necessarily based on fact but sometimes on guestimates by FT.

Example:

My line currently shows 4938m and 59dB attenuation whereas the truth is it's probably about 3700m and 47dB.

[/quote]

Wow! You've been out and followed the telephone line with a tape measure!  [:-))]  How do you know where your line is routed? So that's your truth as opposed to FT's??

Sid

[AnOther]

No, of course I haven't measured it, but my estimation is based on multiple items of solid evidence, for example:

First and foremost, if it were anywhere near as long as FT say it is it would struggle to deliver 512kb whereas it does (or did before Telespit screwed me) deliver a rock solid 2mb, and with Orange a solid 1mb.

Based on the standard formula for line losses of 13.81dB/km my attenuation of 47dB works out at 3400m which just about tallies exactly with the straight line distance from the exchange to my property. 3700m being the distance by road.

Geography, I am in pretty much a straight line out of the village and

there is simply no other way for the line to come which would not add at least 1 if not 2km to it in which case the attenuation would be up in the 60's to the mid 70's. At one point along the road about 800m towards the village, where they have removed the old poles and overhead cables, sticking out of the roadside ditch where they subsequently buried it, are two ends of a spliced cable which has to be mine. The cable emerges again half way up my lane on a pole from where the lines are distributed overhead to the various properties.

Having checked with neighbours there is undoubtedly an error affecting to the whole cluster of 8 properties in the near neighbourhood. My nearest neighbour is about 300m away, and although his line meanders a bit more so is indeed a bit longer, according to Degrouptest it is supposedly 6160m with 72dB's attenuation. 6160m should limit his speed to well under 512kb, (Degrouptest only offers 400kb or so) but under test it delivers a solid 512kb and his router reports 53dB. Using the 13.81dB/mk loss calculation gives a length for him of around 3800m, once again almost exactly as estimated.

I have more:

There is recently completed new property on the main road about 1k towards the village, not far beyond the splice in the ditch, and as there no overhead lines there logically his connection can only have be tapped from the same cable and there is a new small FT JB in the corner of his property at the roadside which tends to confirm this. His Degrouptest figures (2640m & 36dB) tally exactly with his distance from the exchange and the loss calculation. Adding the 1km distance to my property gives me a figure of 3640m, again almost exactly in line with my estimation.

Given all the above I cannot see what other conclusion is possible, can you ?

[sid]

I still don't see your conclusions as conclusive proof that the information given on these ADSL websites is incorrect.

I know of 2 people who live not far from here near the border of Deux-Sevres and Charente. They live within 200 metres of each other, both in Deux-Sevres, but one is listed in the Charente directory while the other is in D-S. The reason being that their lines are routed differently and there is no way that you would deduce that from looking at the telegraph poles; the wires go in both directions! Unless you are an FT engineer I fail to see how you could find out.

The point I'm really making is that these websites are there to provide you with basic information about availability of service. Why do you have to pick everything to pieces?

All this guesswork to prove them wrong; I'm afraid I've got better things to do! If it says you'll get 2mb, that's what they'll offer.

So many experts on here. [+o(]

Sid (retired)

[AnOther]

I didn't say the sites are all wrong, just not necessarily to be taken as gospel. The likes of Degrouptest are there indicate what's available but you have no way of knowing how accurate it is. Do you imagine that I and my neighbours are the only people in France for whom FT have got it wrong ?

If you punch your telephone number in and it comes back at xxxx m, yydB, and zz speed hopefully you will get that but you don't know if your line could actually be capable of much better performance, nor do you need to be an FT engineer to see what is in your face.

FACT: In 2007 when I first went online Degrouptest said my line was 4838m & 49dB for 2232kbps based on which Telespit gave me 2mb and that's what I got, solid and unwavering, and my routers, (I've had at least 6 different ones on the line an various stages) have invariably reported 48/49dB attenuation. FWIW I never even believed the 4838m because by most measures I shouldn't really have been able to get 2mb at that length but I was and I was happy enough with it.

FACT: At some time and for no known, obvious, or explicable reason, and to zero detriment either to my attenuation or speed, Degrouptest began to  report my line as 4936m and 59dB for 1100kbps, thats an additional 98m in length (or 2% to put it in perspective) but a massive extra 10dB of attenuation which, even if that 98m had been added which I don't believe it has, is completely nonsensical demonstrated by the fact that my attenuation is still 49dB and until Telespit ordered FT to downgrade me I was still getting 2mb, in other words, whatever changes Degrouptest alleged, not a single thing changed on my line in terms of performance so it was lies.

I have described the geography but unlike your people in Deux-Sevres and Charente there is but one pole with one incoming multicore cable feeding a junction box from which all the properties are fed radially and absolutely no possibility of any other cables coming in from other directions. You will just have to believe me on this that there simply is nowhere else for them to come from. IF cables were coming from other directions then how could Degrouptest possibly report IDENTICAL length (to the meter) and IDENTICAL attenuation figures (to 4 decimal places!) to my own, for at least 3 of the other propeties. You see now why I accuse them of being guestimates.

If you didn't want to know you shouldn't have asked [:D]

[Jay]

"until Telespit ordered FT to downgrade me"

I cannot believe that a company like Teleconnect could "order" France Telecom to do anything, other way around perhaps.

You admit "At some time and for no known, obvious, or explicable reason, and to

zero detriment either to my attenuation or speed, Degrouptest began to 

report my line as 4936m" So how is it that your ISP is suddenly responsible for this?

[AnOther]

[quote user="Jay"] "until Telespit ordered FT to downgrade me"

I cannot believe that a company like Teleconnect could "order" France Telecom to do anything, other way around perhaps.[/quote]Why not. If say I'd been on a higher speed package but wanted to save money by downgrading to a lower cheaper one the ISP can tell (or ask if you prefer over order) FT to switch the line to that speed. The ISP is FT's customer in this regard and are perfectly entitled to ask/tell/order FT to change it up or down within what the numbers say is possible.

[quote user="Jay"]You admit "At some time and for no known, obvious, or explicable reason, and to zero detriment either to my attenuation or speed, Degrouptest began to  report my line as 4936m" So how is it that your ISP is suddenly responsible for this?
[/quote]That is not what I said. What happened was that in the course of trying to sort out the mainly VoIP problems resultant from their upgrade their tech spotted the numbers, instantly but wrongly assumed that I was on a 2mb package which my line couldn't support which therefore must be the cause of the problems and asked/told/ordered FT to adjust my line down, an instruction with which they complied. So the fact the line length number went up was nothing to do with Telespit, the fact that FT turned me down to 512kb was.

An immediate request by Telespit to have it put back up again met with the now inevitable response - NON - the line does not support greater than 512kbs [:'(]