Alice and Nationwide internet banking

[Danny]

Ok Martin - no worries

can't help with the Hard drive though - sorry

Danny

[Lachouette]

[quote user="Jane and Danny"]

Martin, its good that you can connect to the Nationwide site OK by wifi but.... if you have a minute (or ten!) to try the suggestion above for modifying the MTU for the ethernet connection, it may be helpful for Jan (and for me to know!) if you can get it working. I don't think she has a wireless connection to try...

Danny

 

[/quote]

No - I don't!  Alice have a USB plug in wifi connector for about 40€ if my memory serves me right.  I cannot imagine how connecting by wifi which is only a metre away would make the situation any better but I'm willing to give it a go if the worse comes to the worse as this is our only bank (apart from a French one of course) and is feeling like a nightmare.

Jan

[Danny]

[quote user="Lachouette"][quote user="Jane and Danny"]

Martin, its good that you can connect to the Nationwide site OK by wifi but.... if you have a minute (or ten!) to try the suggestion above for modifying the MTU for the ethernet connection, it may be helpful for Jan (and for me to know!) if you can get it working. I don't think she has a wireless connection to try...

Danny

 

[/quote]

No - I don't!  Alice have a USB plug in wifi connector for about 40€ if my memory serves me right.  I cannot imagine how connecting by wifi which is only a metre away would make the situation any better but I'm willing to give it a go if the worse comes to the worse as this is our only bank (apart from a French one of course) and is feeling like a nightmare.

Jan
[/quote]

Jan if you want to connect by Wifi you can usually use any USB dongle (I use this one with my Alice box). Once it is installed, you can connect to the Alicebox.

However, before you do that, try to change the settings as I described earlier:

download TCP optimizer

run it, click on the 'largest MTU' tab. This is an easy way to find out the optimum setting for your PC. Click start (possibly twice)
it will try to connect to another computer with different file sizes to determine the optimum setting.
When it tells you the number, "You can set your MTU to XXXX", write it down.

You can change the MTU setting with this program but it is clearer to:

download Dr TCP

run it, select your network adapter in the list at the bottom and see what it says in the MTU box. The Windows default setting is 1500. Change this setting to your XXXX number as above. and press Save and then Exit.

Restart Windows and then try to connect to your site to see of there is any difference.

If it doesn't work you can try a very low setting for the MTU like 576  - don't forget to reboot the computer each time you change it. The Nationwide message suggested 1200 or 1420 for the router but you can try this here too. Nothing to lose. Just change it back to original setting if nothing works.

If that makes no difference you can try the wireless route for 15 euros or so. You don't need to pay 40 euros for a USB dongle.

Danny

 

[Martin963]

Of course I could always send you my Nationwide log in number and passcode Danny and you could try out your idea!!!!

Seriously,  I can't remember what Alice box Jan has,  but if it's a Sagem like mine it may be a pain to get to work wirelessly with n'importe quel dongle,   it's a known problem with the Sagems but maybe it's been sorted out with the software revisions.

I do feel for you Jan,  as if I understand correctly your problems only started a few weeks ago.....

Obviously I don't know where you are Jan but we're near Genis and if you're that end of 87 you're welcome to come and try Wendy's computer if it's urgent stuff you need to do.   PM if necessary.   I imagine there are nearer non Alice people around.

I feel a bit feeble not wanting to muck about with my settings but I'm well and truly stuffed in these financially fluid times if I lose contact with Britain via interent banking.

[AnOther]

[quote user="Martinwatkins"]I think it was ErnieY (apologies Ernie but why DO you keep changing your name here,  not that it's any of my business!)[/quote]I've only really changed it once and it's a story I'd rather not go into.

Re the dead HD, clicking is nearly always very bad news but it's unusual if it's only had the use you describe. Could it be though that it's just marginal on your USB ports? USB only supplies 500ma and many drives need this, and a bit more sometimes, to run. OK it's obviously been working for you up until now but before you give up try it on several machines. If it is duff then it is likelly that it's still under guarantee so go to the Toshiba website and check it out.

As for getting data off if it won't play on other machines then the only trick I know which sometimes works is to pop it in the fridge for a couple of hours then try it. If it works then get your data off pronto.

In regard to long term storage, double or even triple backup onto completely separate media is good plan. Apart from storing stuff on a partition on my running machine I have a pair of identical 200gb NAS (Network Attached Storage) boxes, one of which is a mirror of the other, (not RAID) and I keep them in sync with the main machine, and each other, manually. With this scheme I haven't lost anything which is dear to me or irreplaceable for several years.

Online storage is useful but not always free and also, in the case of large files, it can be excruciatingly slow to upload stuff.

[Martin963]

Thanks AnOther,   I'd assumed the power for the Toshiba HDD was provided by the transformer that comes with it,  12V and 5V DC,  both of which are present and correct.    It's over three years old (about 39 months) and anyway I've stuffed the warranty as I've had it in bits.   Peeling off a small sticky foil cover revealed one of the discs,  which I can spin using a small screwdriver.   So it's not jammed.   I'll try the fridge trick  (of course today is hot but it's not so bad in the house).

I'll let you know,  nothing life and death on it but it was all efficiently categorised  (inlcuding my tens of thousands of transmitter photos) and whilst I suspect I've got the same categories on a DVD in Britain (and the actual photos are backed up on Wendy's computer,  and my computer at home) they might need resorting.   Which would be a pain.

[AnOther]

Sorry, I was thinking you were talking about a 2.5" drive not a 3.5", in which case power is unlikely to be the issue.

Believe me, outside of a specialist date recovery lab, taking a drive to pieces at home is NEVER going to be a viable plan for retrieving data, and as for poking the disk with a screwdriver...[:'(]

The clicking noise you hear is the head continually driving home having scanned the disk and failed to find any data.

By all means try the fridge trick, you'll have compromised your chances by exposing the disc(s) to atmosphere and hence the chances of dust ingress and condensation, but nothing left to lose now is there [Www]

[Martin963]

It was the edge of the disc AnOther,  using the same screwdriver with which I dislodge things from behind my teeth.....

When things fail I believe in punishing them.   We had a pressure washer which went a while back,  and when I discovered it had those STUPID screws that prevent members of the public gaining access to the giblets I was so incensed that I dashed the wretched thing's brains out against a concrete wall.  Bits flew everywhere.   It had to be cleared up with duspan and brush.

Some members of the forum may remember my plans to drown an Epson printer in the pool.   Sadly Wendy prevented me from staging that "spectacle".    The story is in the archives here somewhere.

Madame La ViaMichelin SatNav jolly nearly suffered a similar fate in Pamiers (09) last month when she got us lost for the umpteenth time.   There was a convenient small rock by the side of the road and oh how my fingers itched to finish her nonsense off once and for all..  She has been quite the worst purchse I've made in years.   However she lived to fight (literally!) another day,   and actually took us last Sunday through the middle of Chartres very well after we had made a pilgrimage to -  maybe you've guessed it - the TV and radio relay station for the town.

But not for the first time I digress....

[Martin963]

Sadly I think my luck with the wireless Alice connection and Nationwide might have been a one-off.   I now can't get to the page to allow me to make payments outside Nationwide,  although I can get to my list of payees.

Bother!

[Danny]

Hi Martin,

I know you are loathe to tinker with things but if you are up to trying out a little tweak following the method I suggested earlier, it may help. And don't forget, you can just change the setting back to its original value if it doesn't help. Nothing to lose....

It does not interfere in any way with your Alicebox. If you lower the value, it just tells your ethernet card to accept smaller packet sizes of data. If it is the case that the Nationwide site can't deal with an MTU of 1500 (Windows default for Ethernet) as suggested by their email to Jan. They suggested trying to change the setting to see what works best.

The Alicebox's setting is fixed for their own purposes and we are unable to adjust the MTU of the box. So, it seems to me to be worth lowering the setting on the PC to see it changes things.

When I test my Ethernet card with PC optimizer (free downlad I mentioned before) it tells me that my maximum MTU setting is 1460. This test is called 'pinging'. It just does it more quickly than other techie methods. The pinging sends some packets of different sizes to another computer and tests which size is optimum.

Of course, no promises - this may not work with the Nationwide site but it can't harm anything and takes a few minutes to do.

You can also do the same thing for the wifi adapter (select the wireless adapter in the dropdown box instead of the ethernet card) - again it just lowers the setting and if no change, well just change the value back. It might be interesting just to see what value the wifi adapter has already given that it seemed to work - for a brief period anyway.

Bon Courage

Danny

[Lachouette]

[quote user="Martinwatkins"]Sadly I think my luck with the wireless Alice connection and Nationwide might have been a one-off.   I now can't get to the page to allow me to make payments outside Nationwide,  although I can get to my list of payees.

Bother!

[/quote]

You seem to be in the same boat as me!  As soon as I get a bit of peace and quiet (which may be the weekend) I'm going to have a go at tweeking as Danny's suggested.

Bon courage,

Jan

[Martin963]

Actually a couple of hours later I *was* able to organise some payments and I took advantage of this "window" (via the WiFi) to set up several transfers to my new savings account at A and L.

It does seem to be terribly hit and miss,  of course it may be a package size problem but if it is why does it work at some times and not others.   No,  I'm not expecting an answer to that but it is odd.

I will have a play tomorrow - just to please you Danny!   After all I've got three computers here to wreck......

Odd thing is that after all the trouble I had last year getting my laptop to actually "work" with rather than just "see" the Alice box Wifi  (entailing buying a secondary Netgear wireless router) my laptop now (same configuration) opts for the Alice network rather than the Netgear one and joins it as an orphan- lamb might head for its feed bottle.   Maybe that new style Alice software has actually eliminated the Sagem-based bug on the Wifi....

Talking of Alice,  I must harangue them again.   I have got them to agree twice to refund the 2 x €5 charges they erroneously made for Alice Music service,   and although a refund has been promised both times I've yet to receive it,   months later.   Whilst Alice are good in some respects they don't open their wallets willingly.

[Lachouette]

Sorry to drag this old thing back into life.................but I'm grinning ear to ear.  At last I've plucked up courage to follow Danny's instructions (big thanks to Danny) and tinker with the settings, a thing which is well out of my comfort zone!

After a couple of goes I've managed to get the Nationwide working again on an MTU setting of 1200, so I can pay our credit card bill at home instead drinking other people's coffee and doing it on their PCs.

Thanks again Danny - without your help I'd have never done it, although what MTUs are is still a mystery!

Jan

[Danny]

Jan,

That's nice to hear - glad I could help. Maybe Martin will be brave enough to try. It can't do any harm....

Danny

[Martin963]

I suppose I better had hadn't I.....!

Will try next week....

[Lachouette]

[quote user="Martin963"]I suppose I better had hadn't I.....!

Will try next week....

[/quote]

Go for it Martin!  I can't tell you how much better I feel now that's sorted out.

Jan

[Rayring]

I have had the same problem trying to transfer money from a Nationwide account to another bank account and would like to thank Danny for his excellent instructions on resolving the problem.

I changed the MTU setting for the wifi connection down to 1200 and everything worked brilliantly, thanks again Danny.

[Martin963]

[quote user="AnOther"]Sorry, I was thinking you were talking about a 2.5" drive not a 3.5", in which case power is unlikely to be the issue.

Believe me, outside of a specialist date recovery lab, taking a drive to pieces at home is NEVER going to be a viable plan for retrieving data, and as for poking the disk with a screwdriver...[:'(]

The clicking noise you hear is the head continually driving home having scanned the disk and failed to find any data.

By all means try the fridge trick, you'll have compromised your chances by exposing the disc(s) to atmosphere and hence the chances of dust ingress and condensation, but nothing left to lose now is there [Www]

[/quote]

Having got back to the land where I can buy things in £ rather than via €,  I ordered a new HD to go in my Toshiba enclosure.

And -  I put it in - and have exactly the same symptom,  ie a gentle clicking but no disk spinning up.

With the help of an on-line mate,   and to cut a long story short,  it was explained to me how to install an IDE HDD in the computer itself (in order to check it),  and low and behold it wasn't the Western Digital disk which had failed at all,  but the Toshiba enclosure (ie USB,  power supply,  and box).   Volts all present and correct but something in it is not making the discs spin.

So in spite of all the abuse the "broken" disk suffered  (fridges,   sharp blows,   peeling off of sealing labels,  manual spinning of the disks using a dirty (and probably magnetised!) screwdriver),  it's running fine as a second internal HDD and yielding the files I thought were gone for good.

So now I have to buy another external enclosure,   and it'll be a bit like the proverbial garden fork which has had five new sets  of prongs and five new handles over the years.......

[Martin963]

[quote user="Jane and Danny"]

You can change the MTU setting with this program but it is clearer to:

download Dr TCP

run it, select your network adapter in the list at the bottom and see what it says in the MTU box. The Windows default setting is 1500. Change this setting to your XXXX number as above. and press Save and then Exit.

Restart Windows and then try to connect to your site to see of there is any difference.

It might be interesting to see if there is a different MTU setting for the wireless adapter - select the wireless adapter in the drop down box in Dr TCP. That may explain Martin's success.

Danny

 

 

[/quote]

Hi Danny -  I've dredged this up as I really need to do something about my Nationwide problems.

So I've downloaded Dr TCP and I get a box with various options when I run the program.  I've no idea how to paste a picture of it here,  I thought one could but now find I don't know how to.

Anyway,  the MTU box is blank,  the TCP receive window says 256960.   I was expecting to see 1500 as you suggested.   Is it safe to put in the new value and SAVE and could you confirm please that it's the MTU box near the bottom right of the window....

Sorry to be such a woooossss

[Danny]

Hi Martin,

it seems you may have missed the first part to find out what is the optimum MTU for your adapter- so follow this:

download TCP

optimizer

run it, click on the 'largest MTU' tab. This is an easy way to find

out the optimum setting for your PC. Click start (possibly twice)

it

will try to connect to another computer with different file sizes to

determine the optimum setting.

When it tells you the number, "You

can set your MTU to XXXX", write it down.

You can change the MTU setting with this program but it is clearer

to:

download Dr

TCP

run it, select your network adapter in the list at the bottom and see

what it says in the MTU box. The Windows default setting is 1500.

Change this setting to your XXXX number as above. and press Save and

then Exit.

Restart Windows and then try to connect to your site to see of there

is any difference.

If it doesn't work you can try a very low setting for the MTU like

576  - don't forget to reboot the computer each time you change it. The

Nationwide message suggested 1200 or 1420 for the router but you can try

this here too. Nothing to lose. Just change it back to original setting

if nothing works.

By the way, I have now changed to Orange 19,90 euros découverte internet (+3 euros livebox rental) having decided that since the takeover by Iliad, Free was getting the best of Alice and Alice was getting worst of Free. The resiliation went very smoothly with Alice and the sign up with Orange went fine too. Apart from the fact that Orange took over my line at the exchange within an hour !!!! of signing up over the phone. Suddenly the Alice box was not connecting. I had two weeks of Alice to run and no livebox to use so I went in to the Orange shop to complain and after 30 mins of "Pas possible, Monsieur, il faut téléphoner 3900"  I came away with a livebox so that I could still have internet access. I did not realise it was the local jobsworth's fête day in Cahors. [:)]

And then of course, I received a second one in the post three days later which they had already told me was cancelled.

But they were very efficient when I took the second one back in.

Good luck,

Danny

[Danny]

Martin,

don't forget to select the right network adapter (whichever one you are trying to connect with) from the drop down box in both programs....

and to reboot the computer after each change.

Danny

[Martin963]

Aha,  I didn't realise that the first part of the process was fundamental.

I'll have a play.

Thanks for the prompt response Danny.

[eva teng]

Post deleted - advertising is not allowed on this site

[Martin963]

I was about to admit defeat;   the test program suggested 1460 which I actioned,  still to be thwarted by the payments section of Nationwide.

However,   a last ditch reduction to 1200 has opened the gates!!!    I can now access my money!     (what's left of it).  Joy!

Thanks Danny (and the others who contributed to this saga).

We still haven't been anywhere where we've had time to go to an Orange shop,   but I will try and investigate the Decouverte Option.     The web-based methods still offer our line everything EXCEPT Decouverte.   However,  now that Alice is - mainly - running like a well-oiled train and now that we've also been promised a speed increase by next year I mind rather less paying full whack for Alice.

So we'll see.

One little aside on the subject of telephones;   as I've mentioned elsewhere FT have been out to repair faults on our line four times in four weeks.   The last two engineers came and had a coffee,   and pointed out that the line down to our house ceases to be their responsibility AS FAR AS TREE CLEARING IS CONCERNED once it leaves the Route Departementale.   As our drive is 300 m long and lined at all points with oaks/false acacias/ashes etc I've realised I now have quite a job on my hands.    The engineers were in no way threatening but it seems FT are now "clarifying"  who is responsible for what and it seems that if one of "my" branches fell on "their" line on "my" land then I'd be responsible for the costs of repairs.