FT line problem!

[Jonzjob]

Our neighbour has an horrific problem with the FT underground cable from the connector box outside to her home. She has been without a phone or internet connection for almost 3 solid months now and for over a year it has been intermittant. I have contacted the English help line on about 6 occasions for her now after she has had absolutely no reaction from FT locally. Each time they run a test on the line and tell me yes there is a fault. An engineer has been out 4 times after my calls, a different one each time, said yes there is a problem and gone away again after doing zilch! In fact the last one actually went to the connector box outside and tested from there to the exchange and, oh golly gosh, found that it was OK from there to the exchange! One of the engineers said that she would be able to have an aerial cable as a temporary measure until the underground one could be chnged. The last one told her that if she did she would have to pay for 2 lines, which is a load of old pony poo!

Today she received a letter telling her that she has till 30th Nov, 14 days-ish, to pay 160€ for a survey to be carried out for the underground cable change and if she doesn't pay she will have the line completely cut! No phone or internet. Well, hat means that she will be in the same situation as now, but with no chance of getting reconnected! Also, that she may have to pay for the underground cable as well.

From the connector to the house is about 200 metres. The cable leaving the connector is a standard 8 core single strand phone cable. The cable at the back of the primary socket in the house is a 2 core, multi strand black coloured cable, so there is another connector along that line. No-one has any idea as to where it is?

Does anyone know if there is a limit to the connector/house cable length over which the customer has to pay for any repairs?

I haven't mentioned it yet, but the lady in question is French!

[Anton Redman II]

If it were me I would try a two wire twisted pair connection from the connector at 200 metres to the house. If that cures the problem then say you have found the fault inside the house and no longer need the survey. Every French domestiv telephone connection I have seen has only been two wires into the house.

[Jonzjob]

You are correct to say that only 2 wires are used here, but there would be a problem in running them to the house as it would have to lay in a ditch for 80 metres or so and cross a road before getting to the garden.. The ditch is cleared regularly. The twisted pair that leaves the connector box is one pair of the 8 core cable, i.e. 4 twisted pairs. It's as tandard phone cable.

All that would do is to prove what we already know. Ta for the idea though[:D]

[Chancer]

Are they not responsible for the line up to the limit of the property?

Like all utilities that used to be responsible right up to the meter or in this case master socket they are all trying to wriggle out of their responsibilities and for water, gas and electricity they now wont accpet anything beyond the limit of the property, interestingly the same thing is happening almost in tandem in the UK.

The utilities then send out scare letters trying to persuade you to take out an insurance with them, I got one today.

The following is what I would do if it were my house, I'm not sure I would stick my neck out for a neighbour though, certainly not the gits around here.

On the assumption that there is some hidden joins somewhere, probably where the cable has been cut or damaged by others and then bodge repaired.

I would find the point where it comes across the boundary, dig it up and conect it to a proper waterproof junction box, then run the new temp cable as described above, if it now works Ok you know the problem lies on your neighbours property, is her responsibility and you can act accordingly. If the fault remains call out France telecom and show them (well let them test it themselves) that the fault is on their side hence their responsibility.

Good luck and thanks for the E-mail by the way, I will respond soon.

Editted.

The cable should be the type for direct burial, it has a thick black outer sheath and the inner twisted pair conductors are coated with a type of vaseline, if it is run in gaine, and it should be then you could replace it yourself. If there is standard internal telephone cable leaving the FT junction box then they have not done the job properly but getting them to admit to it is another matter, and there is still the issue that there must be a join somewhere as the two ends are a different cable. Have a close look to see if any other services have been run across the line of the buried cable.

[Jonzjob]

Thank you for that Chancer. Can you quote where you had the info on the boundary from please?

This is a neighbour that we would be willing to stick necks out for. There is a join somewhere because it changes from a 4 twisted pair to a 2 core multi strand wire somewhere? I think that I will have to look at a box near the boundry that has a cable, same looking type, stuck up in the air with nowt connected to it! I said to the last eng that I wondered if it was an old wifi! He laughed...

Nothing has been done within the bounds of the garden for years. As to what has happened outside? Who knows?? Any idea as to just how deep the cable 'should' have been buried?

Just a reminder. The problem was intermittent and had been for over a year to date, until about 3 months back, so I don't really think that somebody digging across the line would have caused this problem? I believe that it is a deteriorating connection that is the cause. Finding that bleedin connection is the problem!

[Quillan]

I agree with Chancer, all utilities are delivered to the boundary in France (I think I learnt this from the forum years back). The cable will be in a conduit of some sort look, at the pole outside the house and you may see the cable coming down and entering the conduit. If it is not obvious you may have to dig around for it. Brico Depot do sell the cable as I am sure do other Brico's. People in general when ordering a phone normally let FT run the cable in to the house but they are charged for this all be it at a fixed rate (they work on some you win some you use regarding the actual cost) where in fact you can have any contractor do this for you. You may find that physically connecting it to the FT box may require one of their engineers (if its got their name on it then only they can touch it) and I have a sneaky feeling that the cost will probably be about the same as them installing a new cable (hence some you win).

[Danny]

I seem to remember that FT allow up to 30 m inside the boundary within the normal 55 euro connection charge so.... if there is any further, imagine they would say it is not at their cost.

Danny

[Quillan]

As you mentioned it I took some of my time to have a look on the FT website, why people can't do this themselves I just do not know. Anyway, whinge apart, Danny is correct with regards to installation, you get 30M form the 'point de terminaison' which is the point on a pole (keeping it simple here) from which the cable runs to the house. Don't forget the pole can be right outside the house or some distance away hence they say either 30M or to the boundary. The cost of this is 44.95 Euros. One consideration is that it may pay her to cancel her contract, somebody cuts the cable out and leaves a draw cable in place then apply for a new contract. Don't forget some companies now offer a free line including installation as others have mentioned in various threads.

To find out more, and its not exactly difficult, you can go to the Orange website or use the following link.: http://boutique.orange.fr/ESHOP_mx_ft/?tp=F&ref=3496&IDCible=1&type=3 It's in French so you can print it off for her and as she is French I suspect she will be able to read it OK. 

[Jonzjob]

As I have said before, the cable out of the FT connection box is not the same 4 twisted pair arriving at the house? I am going to have to go and have a GOOD look at where it comes from, try (?) to sort out what route it takes and try to find out where this blasted second connector box is? Because I have the funny feeling that if I can find it and it is still above ground after 35 years then I MAY just have found the problem, or part of it?

The idea of yours Q to chop the contract and restart, if it really is for 55€ would really put one up the donkey of FT??? And after already locking horns with a ceertain 'lady' in FT down this way once before that would be a bonus!! I doubt that it would work for our situation though? Too good too be true.

[Chancer]

My feeling was also to apply for a new line if you cannot isolate the fault.

Re the intermittent fault what you have described sounds very like a fault either with an underground joint box that is not completely sealed, or an above ground box open to the elements (cover lost etc) or perhaps the standard grade of cable being run undeground, after a while these just become porous, the intermittance is due to rain in the case of the above ground box or the soil humidity level/water table, basically delayed reaction rain.

Having had to faultfind loads of underground cables in the past I would say that if FT have done their bit properly there is less risk of a problem outside the property although other utilities may well have cut it and done a bodge repair, more likely to be inside the boundary, not deep enough, not in gaine, damaged by a gardener or builder and again bodge repaired.

[Jonzjob]

As I said Chancer, there has not been any work done in that part of the garden for a lot of years, but i agree that the possibility of a wet/bad connection in a connector box is a real possibility and I will see if I can find such in the next couple of days.

Just as a matter of interest, an eng was 'supposed' to turn up at 08.30 this morning. Some hope! And as for FT doing their job properly, well, I have just seen another pig fly by our window on a tandem, there was a rinohippocow on the back!

I will try to let you know how we get on. It may well be useful for someone else?

[Quillan]

I wanted to add that it must depend on the area you live or the contractor sent to your house. When we had an intermittent problem they arrived within 24 hours and replaced the cable from the pole (which is in my garden, just) to the house. Took him about 15 minutes to trace the problem and another 20 minutes to pull the new cable through and connect it at both ends.

[AnOther]

I believe FT have a statutory obligation to provide a functioning telephone line and if they fail to do so you can complain to the regulator or ombudman.

This may be a starting point.

http://www.orange.com/fr_FR/collectivites/att00008183/ContactsDR-juin09.pdf

[Jonzjob]

I too was under the impression about the obligation, but I have been told by the English help line that there is no such thing as an ombudsman here.

That's a very interesting web site Ernie, thank you. I believe that I have also got the phone number for the big man in Paris as well and I will be contacting that number soon. I'll bet the Chef de France doesn't answer it though?

[Chancer]

Regulator, ombudsman? and there was me thinking that I had woken up in France this morning.

These drugs are very effective [;-)]

[AnOther]

[quote user="Jonzjob"]I too was under the impression about the obligation, but I have been told by the English help line that there is no such thing as an ombudsman here.[/quote]To slightly misquote Mandy Rice Davis, 'well they would say that wouldn't they' [;-)]

Big man ?

That couldn't be Sarko then [:D][:D][:D]

[Jonzjob]

Well! I think that I may just have found the offending connector box, or what's left of it![:-))] The only problem was that this lunch time I ws taking a couple of photos of it and showing my neighbour where it is when the lady of the house whos land it is one, by about a yard, arrived home and asked us what the hell we thought we were doing on her property fiddling with her phone connection! Oh, she also happens to be the deputy Maire![:$]

I still think that it could be our neighbours box though, because hers was one of the first houses to be built up here and if the box was there when the newer house was built then it could well be just inside their boundry.

It all finished up smiles in the end and she is going to let the Maire know what the situation is with this problem tomorrow evening at a meeting with him.

The conector is in a completely broken outer box and a badly damaged inner box. It's covered in all sorts of c r a p and has obviously been subjected to all sorts of weather. It's got what feels like vasiline on it too which is why there is so much muck on it. 4 twisted pairs going in and on pair, not twisted, going out. The single pair looks just like black 5 amp lamp cable! Not what I would have thought the best cable for an ADSL internet connection?

[Quillan]

When you do fix it you might consider a trip to a Brico. There is some stuff I saw in Brico Depot (I suspect other places sell it). It a double plunger job with two chemicals and they 'meet' aand mix at the outlet point. You inject this in to the box and it sets in to what can best be described as a jelly. It supports the cables/wired in the box and stops any moisture getting in which of course also means no corrosion. It can be used with mains electricity box's as well, ideal for outside stuff. Just a thought.

[AnOther]

[quote user="Jonzjob"]The single pair looks just like black 5 amp lamp cable! Not what I would have thought the best cable for an ADSL internet connection?

[/quote]Sounds quite normal. It's what's inside more than outside which counts [;-)]

[Jonzjob]

Q,  I would think that FT would sneeze quite loudly if I were to go and squit all sorts of foaming substances into their boxes?

Ernie, it's also what feeds across between lines and is not cancelled out that could screw up any chance of high speed ADSL connections me-thinks???

We have been promised an engineer as from 08.30 yesterday morning until tomorrow evening, so going for a wee could be castrophic?