RJ45 socket wiring

[RicandJo]

Morning all and happy Easter.

Today I will be swapping over my old t shape telephone socket for an RJ45. Anybody tell me which wire goes where?

Thought it better to ask before I disconnect myself from the world!!

I'm using a Legrand socket by the way.

Cheers

Ric

[Quillan]

Did you mean RJ11 because RY45 is for data cables (computer).

I found this, I don't know if it helps.

http://forum.echosdunet.net/raccordement-cable-telephone-avec-prise-rj11-t3746.html

It's in French but there is a drawing.

[RicandJo]

Sorry Quillan I should have been more specific. It's an RJ45 for the livebox to plug into.

However when I opened up the socket packaging Legrand have very kindly drawn an idiot proof picture. Should be ok then!!!!

Thanks for the link though I'll use that when I get round to the phones.

Cheers

Ric

[Quillan]

No prob's.

Are you talking about the data side of the LiveBox i.e. to connect your computer to the LiveBox?

If that's the case the wall socket should have numbers and basically its pin to pin. The link below has everything you need to know. It's supposed to be a world standard but I as I always say this is France, and it can be different, just to be bloody difficult. [;-)]

http://www.ertyu.org/steven_nikkel/ethernetcables.html

 

[pachapapa]

I presume that you are installing an RJ 45 female socket of a type in conformity with NF C 15 100 at the point where the telephone connection enters your house or are you replacing all your cigogne T connections. In a word are you intending to fit a  prise simple RJ 45 or a prise triple RJ 45 ; it would make it easier if you gave us the Legrand Number for the product you will be fitting

Evolution de la norme NF C 15 100 : dans les installations faisant l’objet d’un permis de construire déposé à partir du 1er janvier 2008, toutes les prises de communication seront de type RJ 45 (disparition des prises en T).

[pachapapa]

If not sure track through the Legrand Manuel. Just download the PDF file and stick it on your desktop for future refernce.

http://www.legrand.fr/files/fck/File/e-book/Guide_pratique_COM_FR/index.html

En ADSL, si on résume, 2 pins sont nécessaires
-Gigogne (T) = pins 1 et 3
-rj11            = pins 3 et 4
-rj45            = pins 4 et 5
Note that the rj11 and rj45 both use the central two pins so in fact you can use a male rj11 in a female rj45 as long as you locate it in the center. If you have an Orange analogue telephone you will need an rj45 low pass filter though. Available at your Orange Boutique.

[Jonzjob]

You can't locate it anywhere but the centre because the 'click lock' tab won't fit off centre.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Jonzjob"]You can't locate it anywhere but the centre because the 'click lock' tab won't fit off centre.
[/quote]

Agreed but when you put the rj11 in you must be careful to put it in straight or the sprung pins can be damaged; another aspect is that the shoulders of the rj11 will push the sprung pins of the rj45 socket up further than normal and prolonged use may possibly affect the contact on those two pins when a rj45 male connector is later used.  But what I would really like to know is why the OP was fitting a rj45 socket compatible with telephone and data use. Round here such sockets are like "hens teeth".[:)] I made the point about the rj11 because most french ISP Modem/Router boxes connect to the phone with an rj11. I must admit the double set of clips on the rj45 sockets for connecting the wires are rather smart.but rather expensive.

[IMG]http://stielec.ac-aix-marseille.fr/cours/abati/domo/images/vdi11.gif[/IMG]

[Quillan]

This is what happens if a country implements a none standard system. In the rest of the world it's RJ11 for comms and RJ45 for data, mix the two and life can get very expensive

[pachapapa]

France alone.[:)]

Not sure that the IEC http://www.iec.ch/ and the CENELEC http://www.cenelec.eu/Cenelec/Homepage.htm would agree.

In the meantime an electro-technical glossary and definitions, courtesy of the IEC, particularly useful in english and french, the official languages.

http://www.electropedia.org/iev/iev.nsf/2decad0ea7d70589c12574490032b74e?OpenForm

[Quillan]

May be OK for houses I suppose but commercial cabling is not done that way. It's dominated by AT&T and CISCO. In the old days everything was wired with RJ45 and you had adapters. These days the patch frames are separate and RJ11 is used for phones/video and RJ45 is used for data. The main reasons are that there is a limit on data of 158m for copper so only each floor is cabled with a fibre optic backbone between floors. Some very large floors are zoned and the optic backbone taken out on to the floor. These systems, unless using voip, don't support phone systems. With phone systems its point to point i.e. patch panel to floor box and run in copper as phones can work over far greater distances. The data comms industry has always used this system which is why adsl routers always come with a RJ11 plug and if you look at commercial phones they also come with RJ11 plugs. Likewise all data equipment comes with RJ45.

Anyway all this I guess does not help the OP.

[pachapapa]

Well maybe but the HD runs out in 2011 so perhaps a kick in the "jack" for Cisco.

OT yesterday buying a bag of fertiliser in Leclerc I could not resist wandering over to the Legrand Celiane Product display and wait for the assistance of a helpful assistant; after opening and perusing a selection of RJ45 dual purpose sockets he seemed to enter a state of confusion.[:D]

The OP doesn't seem to have been around for 48 hours which augurs well.

[pachapapa]

But think how much AT&T1Cisco could have saved the client by having multi-purpose RJ45s. I must confess that doing a wiring job that drops off in each room a socket that gives me TV Telephone and ADSL from the one socket has a certain simplicity of purpose. Diagrammatic of typical installation below.

[IMG]http://www.stielec.ac-aix-marseille.fr/cours/abati/domo/images/vdi14.gif[/IMG]

[Quillan]

I understand but you are talking domestic and I am talking commercial and there is a very big difference.

For a start the normal Ethernet system you use in a house is either 10base-T or 100base-TX both of which use pins 1/2 and 3/6. In commercial environment we could be taking 100base-T4 and 1000base-T both of which use all 4 pairs which makes accidentally plugging in a phone or a television (the latter you wouldn't do anyway) quite dangerous to the equipment. It could, in worst case, take out a whole 50 way switch. As I said phones can work over a much longer distance just on copper but data can't and the faster the speed the shorter the distance, 158M for 10/100base-T(X) and 100M for 100base-T4 and 1000base-T. So these data signals get to a closet and get multiplexed and fed in to a high speed optical backbone and then back again once it reaches the datacomms room. There is little or no point buying and installing equipment to translate voice from analog to digital then multiplex it, send it down a optic cable amongst the data then separate it out at the other end and route it on to the phone frame, its just not financially viable and a total waste of money so its all left in copper.

Finally RJ45 connectors are and always have been cabled to 568A or 568B and the pins 4, 5, 7, and 8 are defined as n/c. This goes back to the IEE spec in 1983. Obviously they are never really n/c because Cat5 always uses 4 pair and they do have to be used for 100base-T4 and 1000base-T. To that end its quite clear that, as quoted by the IEE "If you mix LAN and Telephony on the same wiring it will be non-standard" which is why its kept separate and RJ11 connectors are used for phones.

[RicandJo]

OK so I'm a dumbass. I thought the live box plugged into a RJ45 socket but now I realise it doesn't, so I need a RJ11 socket instead. Ah well I'm sure I can use the 45 somewhere......paperweight maybe.

Thanks for all the links........

[Quillan]

Not really, you plug the RJ11 plug in to the ADSL filter (you have to use the filter) then plug the filter in to your existing 'T' type phone socket.

[pachapapa]

What a relief! been racking my brains for three days wondering how it would be used.[;-)]

But they are pretty though.[:D]  [IMG]http://www.legrand.fr/files/fck/Image/418_JPG/Image-4.jpg[/IMG]

[JohnM]

I'm a tad confused by all this. The Connexion newpaper says that the T socket is being replaced by the RJ45 so I want to get rid of the awful T (as the plug doesn't stay in without the use of sellotape).

I guess I put an RJ45 onto the incoming wires, but what happens after that, where does the 3 way prise come into it? (I can't get my head round it's positioning with reference to the adsl filter and the TV bit which I assume just comes from my sat box). OK, I am sure "I" am not supposed to do it.

[pachapapa]

I dont read the Connexion. I find french newspapers more up to date and accurate. Can you post the waffle they have indoctrinated you with so I can understand what you are on about. If your gigogne plug falls out, try putting the socket on a wall rather than the ceiling.[:)]

P.S. There is another amusing thread on this board about cat5E cables and RJ45 in an NF-15-100 context. Ab search should throw it up.

[JohnM]

The connexion just says that in "Electricity in your French Home" by Thomas Malcolm it says that in modern homes the T has been replaced by the RJ45. I've now ordered it, but it will take a couple of weeks to arrive.

In the mean time if you can assist.... a pair of telephone wires come into the house.... I don't want the T socket.......

[pachapapa]

RJ45 sockets are only legally required for domestic construction subject to a Permis de Construire dated on or after the 1st January 2008.

I would just note that you will require a DTI with a RJ45 Test Socket, not sure if what you have ordered will comply with this; in any event no real problem just follow the current NF C 15-100 and you wont go wrong.

[JohnM]

I ordered the book, then thought I might get help from here a bit quicker.

I'm not sure I will get the whole of the Department of Trade and Industry in my house...... :-) . I don't know what that acronym means so I can't go and get one, I certainly didn't see anything in Castorama that used those letters and nothing seemed to have an RJ45 Test socket attached.

The problem is that I am struggling to learn French and technical things like the NF C 15-100 will probably drive me insane.

[pachapapa]

Thomas Malcolm is a remarkable person. The 2002 Version of NF C 15-100 runs to a cool 503 pages without including the later appendices. The man squeezes all that into 80 pages for less than € 15.[:-))]

[JohnM]

I guess it is the same with most official paperwork, they have to cover absolutely every eventuality and therefore, for the average user there is a lot of cra.... superflous information.

If he is able to tell me in plain simple English what I need to do to replace the T with something more reliable (I've tried three over the years and they all seem to make dubious connections) I will be a happy man.

[JohnM]

I've just notice your tag line refering to searching for previous threads. I guess you mean when I asked something similar some time back. Yes, I did and I decided not to do anything, until I saw this thread and the 3 socket thing in the DIY shed, I wondered whether to take that option. However, I can not get my head round the wiring configuration and a search on the web has not provided me with a diagram.