The longgggggggg road back

[rog]

For reasons that I am not prepared to go into I have to abandon my dream and return to the UK!

When I arrived here some 4 years ago I brought all my animals on a ONE way trip and they have no Pet passports to effect their return. My question is this;

What do I have to do to effect said return?

The animals in question are as follows (UK denotes origionally exported from UK);

1 Dog (UK)  +  2 Dogs (acquired here)

2 Cats (UK) + 3 Cats  (acquired here)

1 Parrot (UK)

Lastly an estimate from the local vet for the raibies jab regime for one dog is c250 euros can this be true??????

As always your help will be greatfully appreciated.

PS I am the artist formally known as 'rogs' i.e. 'Moving to the GERS etc' but as I have been unable to log on with my origional details I am now 'newbie' rog! 

PPS Please no home spun wisdom with the benefit of hindsight.

[Teamedup]

I would suggest that you shop around and/or see if the vet will do you a price for all the animals. Don't forget that you cannot travel with the animals for some time. Allow at least six months to get all this paper work/jabs/results etc sorted out.

Good luck, you have a lot of animals.

[I1]

I am always cautious about responding to these types of questions having have very rude and nasty responses from others (on a different organisations forum) – not for being wrong but for not listing every possible special case and rule.

Note that all the Pet Passport stuff is related to avoiding quarantine.

Always check with your vet as they are kept up-to-date with regulations, interpretations, etc. What I say below is what I have picked-up and read.

For all the dogs (UK and French) you need Pet Passports. To get these each dog needs to be micro-chipped, rabies vaccinates, blood tested and, 6 months after the blood sample was taken for the successful blood test, you can consider entering the UK without quarantine. The sequence of things is important. However, there is a special case for French dogs where they are tattooed at/before the start of the above sequence and then have a microchip fitted later. It is a strange special case and I have little knowledge of it (check with your vet).

There is no way round the 6 month delay following blood sample giving a successful blood test as I guess it is possible for an animal to have rabies for 6 months before showing symptoms.

When actually travelling you need to have each dog “tick and tape work” treated between 24 and 48 hours before checking-in with your transport company. This needs to be done by a vet who can complete the necessary paperwork (or enter the right bits in the Pet Passport). In the UK this is a LVI vet (most practices have at least one LVI but not all vets are LVI’s). I’m not sure about who can do these things in France but again your vet would know if they can/cannot.

When entering France people have said there is a limit on the number of animals you can bring at any one time. I have no idea if the same applies the other way round. However, DEFRA actually have a telephone number (PETS helpline) (contact me if you need details) so there is somebody you can call to check.

As far as costs go, check what your quoted price includes. Is it just the rabies vaccination, or does it include fitting micro-chips (if necessary), taking blood samples, laboratory test fees, filling in paperwork, etc.

For my French dog, when I purchased her (as a pup) I asked she have a micro-chip rather than a tattoo so I don’t know what sort of costs might be involved here. Otherwise, rabies vaccination €23,41 taking blood sample €22,01, laboratory fees (invoiced by and paid directly to departmental laboratories) €65,78 and I don’t yet know if I will be charged for filling in the paperwork (as nobody can get hold of any). There would also be the costs of tick and tapework treatments just before travelling.

[Teamedup]

Special? We just went through the normal process with our dog.

We got her here in France in 1994 and she had her rabies jab and was tatooed and was issued with a pet passport  when she was a pup. We then had her vaccinated against rabies etc every year there after. Not one sole has ever looked at her pet passport.

When it came to our wanting to travel with her, our vet just treat her like any other animal needing to be sorted out for travelling to the UK. She had her blood test done. She was chipped. And then after the six month waiting period we could travel with her, ofcourse getting her worm and tick etc treatment 24 hours before travelling each time. So nothing 'special' at all for us. And the vet did warn us to allow 9 months to get absolutely everything sorted out, just in case. Which is what we did.

[I1]

The "special" case is "special" in DEFRA's terms as it applies only to French dogs.  I.e. if you lived in Belgium and had a tatoo'd dog, it would need to be microchipped before rabies vaccination, blood test, etc. (i.e. the sequence is then important and must start with the microchip - though clearly your dog can be given rabies vaccine without a microchip, I'm refering to DEFRAs rules/sequence).  It is only French dogs that can have the microchip fitted later in the sequence (as I understand it anyway).

[Penny29]

Hi,

I really feel for you as we were in the same position about 18 months ago (fortunately, we didn't have to go back to the UK in the end) and I had to research all the intricacies of taking our animals back to the UK (ours also came on a one way trip & then we acquired more - we were talking 3 dogs and 2 cats at the time).

Obviously the regulations may have changed in the interim but here are some sites that I used then, which preumably have been updated since. If you want more info please send a message to my inbox and I'll let you have my phone number.

 

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/quarantine/factsheet/petseurope.pdf

 

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/quarantine/quarantine/procedures/support-info/trans.shtml

 

http://www.dfkennels.btinternet.co.uk/contact.htm

 

 

 

 

[Teamedup]

I1, I still don't understand.

Animals can get chipped here without having an anti rabies jab and I would assume that they can have an anti rabies jab without being chipped. And some of us will do these things without having plans to go back. Then we just have to get things sorted out with the vet and it all takes time and money.

[I1]

I'm no expert and not a vet, so don't take my word as definative.  I'm also no good at explaining things (sorry).  What I was talking about was just the steps/sequence necessary to get a "Pet Passport" - the paperwork to allow you to take your pet back to UK (and other participating countries) without quarantine.

However, DEFRA's regulations state that to get a Pet Passoprt (and thus to be allowed to take you pet into the UK without quanrantine), you need to: have your pet microchipped, then have it vaccinated against rabies, then have it blood tested (to check it has aquired adequate immunity to rabies) and then to wait 6 moths (in case it caught rabies the day before the blood sample was taken) - all in that order.  There are minimum times between each stage as well.

However, as French dogs used to be tatood rather than microchipped, DEFRA made a special allowance for tatoo'd French dogs that allowed the microchip to be fitted later (as the dog was already uniquely identified).

I believe the idea is to be 101% sure the dog treated, tested, etc. is the actual dog concerned.  For example, should the microchip fail and need to be replaced (no idea if this actually happens but there are procedures for it), then you need to return to square one and start all over again.

Clearly you can have you pet rabies vaccinated without a microchip or tatoo.  However, shoudl you want to return to the UK with your pet, the vaccination might count for nothing, depending on where you are and what type of id youir dog has.  For example, in Holland with a totoo'd dog, the dog can still be vaccinated against rabies but, if you want a Pet Passport to return with the dog to the UK, then the vaccination will be irrelevant as the procedure say your dog must be microchipped first (unless in France which is the special case).

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/quarantine/pets/procedures/support-info/tattoos.htm

Denmark also has some special case though I have no idea what it is.

When I returned to UK once, I saw somebody else checking in at the ferry terminal with a dog and then disappearing - I checked and they had a peperwork error and were not being allowed to travel with their dog that day.  It is enforced (Europe to UK) and the paperwork must be correct.  Having said that I have taken one of my dogs acrosss the channel 3 times without difficulties.

[I1]

rog,

found this on DEFRA's web site that may be applicable to your situation:

Q24. Is there a limit on the number of animals I can travel with?

A24. There is no limit when moving pets between EU countries. The maximum number of all types of pet animals each person may bring into the EU from most non-EU countries is 5. The exceptions are Andorra, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Monaco, Norway, San Marino, Switzerland and the Vatican for which no limit has yet been set. Moving more than 5 animals will be regarded as commercial movement.

The page is: http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/quarantine/quarantine/regulation/eu_reg_qa.htm

[Teamedup]

I see what you mean.

We had our dog tatooed and rabies vaccinated at the end of 1994, it was never suggested that we had her chipped then. We've been taking her back to the UK for about the last three years. It was a long process to get her testing and paperwork sorted out, but we didn't hit any problems and haven't since. 

 

[mutley]

at the risk of further accusation but to avoid speculative replies the reason for the derrogation for french dogs with tattoos was due to France having already had in existance at the time of the introduction of the pets passport a requirement for all dogs and cats to be tattoed. There was no legislation in place to allow for a microchip infact  for a vet to acquire a microchip they needed to literally go abroad to source a supply or apply for one and each pet was then a special case and a single chip was duly issued as a special case for this reason the UK granted a derrogation allowing tattoed and registered dogs and cats to start a pets passport under a tattoo giving vets the time to acquire a chip. since then the law in france has been changed specifically to allow either chipping or tattoo and this has been further extended under EU legislation for france to do away with tattoing in eight years. Its all part of the same harmonisation legislation that now restricts the numbers for the puproses of a non commercial entry to the UK to five per person previously there has been no limit.

 

Hope that wasn't too painful

 

 

[I1]

Actually it was very interesting. I had seen the rules and could understand why but not the background and the propsed changes.

My limited experience is that tatooing still seems the main method used to id dogs. when I got my French pup earlier this year I asked that it be microchipped rather than tatoo'd. Had I not asked this it would have been tatoo'd by default.

Certainly most dogs at my dog club are tatoo'd and not microchipped.

[Athene]

[quote]Hi, I really feel for you as we were in the same position about 18 months ago (fortunately, we didn't have to go back to the UK in the end) and I had to research all the intricacies of taking our ani...[/quote]

HI!

we regularly travel backwards and forwards from France to the UK in the company of our two cats. We are always checked and the microchips are scanned and checked off against the paperwork. The vet's certificates for the tic and the worm treatment are always checked  - in fact the last time we went back to the UK, we arrived too early and had to be put on the later ferry as the treatment was not 24 hours old!

 Most vets will issue appropriate documents and the cost of the tic and worm treatments are reasonable. I would hate to be without my cats and I find travelling with them an easy affair.

Hope this helps!

[rog]

[quote]For reasons that I am not prepared to go into I have to abandon my dream and return to the UK! When I arrived here some 4 years ago I brought all my animals on a ONE way trip and they have no Pet pas...[/quote]

Thankyou everybody for your invaluable advice once again, even if the house sells soon it would appear I am in for a long wait! I fear after that period I will not then be able to visit this site too often as it will bring back too many wonderful memories sadly missed.As you can realise I am being pushed into this move very much against my will............ Eh bien, c'est la vie! Onward and upward.

Rogs

[Athene]

[quote]Thankyou everybody for your invaluable advice once again, even if the house sells soon it would appear I am in for a long wait! I fear after that period I will not then be able to visit this site too ...[/quote]

Hi Rogs,

I am of the firm opinion that behind every cloud there is a silver lining and you have to stay positive and look for it, not hope that it will shine on you by chance. There are still things about the UK that are good and, at the end of the day, it is the people not places that make for happiness.

Good luck with the move and I hope your pet passport come through easily!