What help are French schools obliged to give?

[Emma]

Our family moved here over 2 years ago and for the first 2 years my daughter who was 10 when we arrived went to the local village school. Frankly, I don't think they knew where to start with her and have just left her to learn the language for the last 2 years. Her spoken French is OK bt she has a way to go with the written work. She was never very academic and now she has started at college we are shocked to find just how behind she is - in everything. She can't remember anything from school in England  and is really struggling and the teachers just seem to shrug and don't appear to have the time or resources to do anything. There are no international schools in the area and we don't want her to board as we like our children at home with us.

I remember a couple of polish children coming to the school in England and the school were falling over themselves to help with extra language lessons and one to one teaching - all funded by local governement. does anyone know if anything like this is possible in France or have any other suggestions that may help her? We are do worried. Thanks,Emma

 

[Lori]

Hi Emma:  Your daughter is about the same age as mine.  Mine is in 5eme.  From what you've written, it sounds like your daughter is in 6eme - a shock in itself, no matter how well you speak the language.

If I were you, I would make an immediate appointment with the Director of the school your daughter attends.  Is it a large college - more than 500 students?  There are all kinds of options, but you need to speak with the Director to find out what they are in your school.  All colleges have English professors who, normally, speak very good English (totally unlike most primary school teachers).  You might find out who your daughter's English teacher is and ask for an appointment, if English is your preferred language, but the Director is the best first stop.  They are normally very helpful.

There are study halls in our daughter's college that any student can attend.  They are hosted by volunteer parents and A level students.  You might want to look into this as an option for your daughter.  Often each teacher will assign a "helper" in each class for a suffering student.  Someone who can help with assignments and make sure tasks are understood.  Your daughter may end up needing to repeat this school year and that isn't necessarily a bad thing.  However, if you start talking regularly with the school and ask for either weekly meetings or weekly progress notes, you will be able to keep close tabs on what is happening.  This can make a huge different.

Does she have any special interests?  Does she attend any outside school activities?  This is a really tough time for her and she is at an awkward age on top of that.  Whatever you can do to encourage her and let her know that it WILL get better can only help her. 

What region of France are you in?  Is your daughter interested in communciating with other students via email?  Maybe just to chat or for some additional encouragement? 

There are several teachers on this forum.  I'm sure they will be along soon to offer their thoughts.

Best of luck to you and your duaghter.

[Tourangelle]

Emma

If you were in a large city, you would get lots of help.  Children who arrive in the school I teach in, a college, get 8-12 hours of extra French a week, taught by specially trained teachers.  There is a special section for them, and we have training on how best to integrate them in our classes the rest of the time.  Now this is the city, so obviously they can concentrate resources wisely.  As you talk about your village school, perhaps you are not in a big enough school district to get this sort of help.  However you could talk to the school and see if anybody is available to help, otherwise you will just have to pay for private lessons.

[Chrisb]

We, too, were not offered any extra help on arriving in France, so used a private tutor. Even though they were doing well after a year or so, we continued with the tutor, as she was very useful in explaining some of the finer grammar points etc that they may not have grasped, and didn't want to ask in class, plus also giving them a hand with the correct way to answer comprehension questions and essay writing. It would be worthwhile paying for private lessons, so your daughter doesn't fall further behind - they tend to zip along at quite a pace once they get into college!!

Chris

[The Riff-Raff Element]

It might be worth enquiring at your mairie. Some English children who

arrived here a couple of years ago got some additional tuition paid for

out of the commune's coffers. I'm not sure whether this is something

generally available or our mayor just found some money he'd forgotten

about down the back of the sofa.

[Mistral]

As Tourangelle says, there is FLE (français langue étrangère) help in some schools but for budget reasons, it is only available in schools with several non-French speaking pupils. My collège has nearly 40 recently arrived non french speakers (for just under 500 pupils) so we have been allowed 21 hours of FLE. But we had to fight to get it up from 3 hours.

As a collège teacher (and fomer Prof P of 6eme) the first thing I would suggest is asking for an appt with the professeur principal. If you're not comfortable with using french, either ask a friend to come along to translate or ask if one of the English teaching staff could be present, as Lori suggested. When asking to meet  the prof P, it would be a good idea to write a short note (not just fill in the demande de RV part of the carnet) explaining why you are coming in, so that he/she can check round with the other members of staff and  check your daughter's primary dossier (it should have followed on) and her evaluation results. The important thing to find out is if she is struggling because of the language or because concentrating on learing the language in primary has put her behind in the other subject. or any other reason. Many pupils find the move from CM2 to 6eme difficult (even bright, french ones) it can easily take until christmas for some to settle.

Depending on what the prof p can tell you, you need to then ask what help the collège can give. Unfortunately, if it is purely with French and the collège doesn't have an allocation for FLE, then you probably won't get any help there. Most collèges offer aide aux devoirs after school during which surveillants or teachers (rare but possible) help pupils on a one to one system. As your daughter is in 6eme, she has the right to 2 hours of ATP (aide au travail personnalisé) per week. You will need to ask about that too.

 

Tourangelle, you had training on how to integrate ENAF's into your classes? ? Any info/tips/suggestions would be gratefully received. I'm a bit fed up with making it up as I go along (and translating my lessons into german)

[Lori]

I knew you'd be along here soon Mistral.  Very nice post.

I just had a meeting with my daughter's Math teacher.  Daughter is in 5eme and Math is not her best subject.  This teacher prefers to do the outside of class (extra) work herself !  In our case, she will continue for the next two weeks (up to the Toussaint break) keeping an eye on daughter's comprehension.  If she feels she really isn't getting it, the teacher will assign her Monday mornings from 8:30 am to 9:30 am (she starts classes at 9:30 am on Mondays and teacher is free for same hour) to do her homework and review.  The teacher will not stand over her, but will be in the same general area to check on her and be there when she asks questions.  Teacher even gave us her email address and home phone number so daughter can call her with homework questions or anything at all !!  Unheard of in the old U.S. of A.

I was rather impressed by that.  She felt that assigning a classmate (who is better at math) would not work as expected.  She said that in her experience, the other students don't really know how to teach someone else and don't have the patience needed to keep explaining things.  She said that more often than not, they end up giving the answer without making sure the student fully understands how they arrived at it.

We'll see how this goes.  Perhaps the OP might find similar teachers at her school.

 

[Tourangelle]

mistral

I've only had one session so far, but I'll keep you posted!  It's organised by the Casnav, centre pour la scolarisation des élèves nouvellement arrivés and something else, children who are travellers, perhaps.

[Mistral]

Yes, I've heard of the casnav, I've come across it while doing internet searches trying to find some sort of help. The aix-marseille casnav site is next to useless (surprise!) but the strasbourg one is interesting. HLG here posted an interesting casnav/crdp site in bordeaux which had some useful stuff (particularly vocab sheets I've handed out ot my pupils) A lot of the casnav sites are typically "intellectual france", you can find of thrilling articles about how difficult it is to integrate ENAF's into your class and even why. But nothing about what you can concretely do to make things better for everyone. Are you still in the lyon academie? I'll have to have a look at their casnav site.

I just get so frustrated when you've got 7 non french speakers in one class of 4eme (used to be 8 but one left) with very varying levels of french and absolutely no help/advice. Everybody seems to think that feeding them loads of hours of FLE is all that's necessary. And somehow they are going to miraculously pick up all the other subjects and not get behind. There's one Armenian who's trying so hard, and follows well in class (not the grammar part obviously) but he can't do the homework because the workbook instructions are in French (new live) he's the one I'm translating the lesson ito german for. At least he can read and write.

Anything and everything you learn at your stages would be very interesting.

[Garlic]

I guess we were really lucky as my children were given FLE without us asking...It's a small college in a small town and there weren't many foreign children just my two and a Morrocan boy. It did take a while to kick in as they'd already done a term and a half before it started...They had help for two years and yes they did get behind with other subjects but have slowely caught up (at least the one that works has!). They were put in the year beneath them to start and both have had to redouble as well so are two years behind. They also feel very hard done by because the English prof was very hard on them and accepted nothing short of perfection in English. The FLE stopped as suddenly as it started the powers that be must have just decided that they didn't need it any more. Retrospectively I can't believe I was so laid back about the whole business...It could have all gone horribly wrong. The hard thing for us is helping with homework although we get better every year and I suppose it stretches the brain! 

[Emma]

Thank you so much everyone for your replies so far. I have taken all the advice and have now arranged an appointment with the Directeur and the Prof. Principal on Monday next week to discuss Rosie's progress and what the school are able to do to help her. We have also found a maths tutor to help her catch up privately - I'll let you know how it goes.

 

Emma

[Mistral]

[quote user="Garlic"] The FLE stopped as suddenly as it started the powers that be must have just decided that they didn't need it any more.  The hard thing for us is helping with homework although we get better every year and I suppose it stretches the brain! [/quote]

I think that technically there is only FLE allowance for the first two years because after that they are supposed to be up to level in French. (I actually read that on a casnav website!! How anyone in a country that goes on and on about how difficult the French language is and gets them learning their verbs at 7 and still doing dictées at 15 can think that 2 years is going to be enough to catch up is beyond me) or maybe the rectorat decided that three pupils wasn't enough for them to pay a FLE teacher. As I said before, we've gone up from 3 to 21 hours, but at the same time the other schools in the town have lost the same amount of hours.

Helping with homework is tough for French parents too, although they do have the advantage of understanding what the teacher is acutally talking about. I remember trying to help with a fiche de lecture, before my husband took over an explained that it is a very precise thing which has to follow certain rules. No-one had explained that to me. It's one of those "everybody knows" things that those of us who didn't go through the French system miss. Just try telling any class that you're going to do a correction. They all immediately get out green pens.

Emma; keep us updated

[Lori]

Emma - I hope your appointment yesterday (Monday) went well.  Keep us updated.

[Fil]

Hi,

my son James came here when he was 13, for six weeks at the end of Cinquieme.  He was immediately given extra french tuition by his french teacher which went on for a whole year until the end of Quatrieme.  However, he then redoubled, but this really helped him.  This was at a very small country town College, not a big city one.  There were about six or so English speaking children in the school at any one time, some with more experience than him, some with less, and all benefitted to some degree from extra help.

He then went onto Lycée in Pontivy and all the english kids got FLE along with a few mexicans and other nationalities.  He had a great time - they even went and did wine tasting!  I guess this was seen as not just learning the language, but the culture too!  However, despite all this he has chosen to go back to the UK where he is now doing A levels in French (easy as he is fluent), Art (one of the main reasons as the art education here is so poor and he wants to work in film animation), Maths (easy too, he says, especially after having done it in french for so long) and Physics (ecstatic on this one - as he came third in the class and they are all boffins according to him).  He has adapted well both ways, but his heart is in the UK and as he is 17 and living with his brother, I am not worried about letting him do it.  He had alot of help over here, as he was also diagnosed as suffering from Aspergers Syndrome here, which explained his behaviour and shyness problems.  I was fairly well impressed with the help he got in french (although the french teacher could not understand why he did not know the grammatical terms she was trying to teach him in their english form), but all in all, it was a difficult move for him.  I feel it was only his very high intelligence level that kept him going.

I don't know unfortunately what a child's entitlement is.  Good luck.

Fil

[Kate]

Hi there Mistral

I wonder if you could help.  I too am in Provence with my 13yr old son attending a local college.  He gets absolutely no help whatsoever with French and since September still does not speak French.  The headmistress has stated that there is no help available.

Where are you that your college offers 21 hours of FLE a week?  I am so sick with worry for my son and at my wits end.

Regards

Caroline

[Kate]

Hi there Mistral

I wonder if you could help.  I too am in Provence with my 13yr old son attending a local college.  He gets absolutely no help whatsoever with French and since September still does not speak French.  The headmistress has stated that there is no help available.

Where are you that your college offers 21 hours of FLE a week?  I am so sick with worry for my son and at my wits end.

Regards

Caroline

[Tourangelle]

Hi Caroline,

As Mistral hasn't answered yet, I thought I'd give it a go.  You need to find out about a classe d'accueil, and not all schools have these.  Your son may well have to travel to to get to them.  Once there, he will be put in a class with others who have arrived, and do a certain number of hours of intensive French, 21 sounds like a maximum to me, my pupils have about 16.  The rest of the time he will probably follow normal classes.  There are also structures where they do months intensive French, nothing but French, but obviously there is a lot of demand for this. I can't remember what they are called. Unsurprisingly, these classes are organised in larger cities and towns, as it means there is a specialist teacher on the staff.  Therefore, you won't find them in the countryside, it is simple economics.  I am surprised that the head did not know about these structures, but if you are in a rural area, then it is probably not readily available.  The French system does not allow for extra classes for just one child, so that is why you have had no help.  Neither does the British one for that matter!  hope this helps and you manage to sort out your son's difficulties, it is a difficult age to arrive in France.

[Emma]

Hi Lori,

 

Emma here _ I wrote the original post in this strand. Just a quick up-date!

My daughter is still struggling at school although her language skills continue to improve her Maths is still terrible. We are paying for private tuition as the school ( despite having 2000 pupils) say they have no budget to assist foreign students and that she must be treated the same as a French student. Her teachers think she is bright - but lazy and just not bothered, I feel she is becoming dissafected wih so much failure, she is now behind in most subjects. A friend who used to work with special needs children has suggested that she has dyspraxic tendancies however, dyspaxics  ( as far as I know) usually have coordination difficulties / clumsiness and so on as the problem affects motor skills and not just learning. Rosie is not clumsy and does not have any motor problems she is a fantstic ski racer and also ice skater. The tendancies they talk of are around her inability to get things down on paper and her general chaos and complete lack of organisation skills.

A question - would it be worth her seeing and Educational psychologist for an assessment? If so, how do I go about finding one?

Thanks again!

Emma

[Deby]

Emma,

It sounds as if you have been given a text book solution! From the limited information which you have provided it is difficult to be very objective.  However, I would be extremely wary of  believing that there is something wrong with your child in the absence of solutions from the school.  What is your gut feel about your child?  Do you sincerely believe there is an underlying medical problem? If not, then I would question what you are being told and pursue other avenues as suggested here on the forum.  How many times have we heard non-native french speakers being called lazy? I would not accept it if I thought my child was struggling with the language and the system. Go back to the school, contact the Mairie, Rectorat and show them examples of what others do and prove to them other schools/depts do things  better.  The french like nothing more than written, factual evidence.

Dont give up and good luck!

Deby

[suein56]

[quote user="Emma"]

My daughter is still struggling at school although her language skills continue to improve her Maths is still terrible. The tendancies they talk of are around her inability to get things down on paper and her general chaos and complete lack of organisation skills.

[/quote]

Rosie sounds just like my 13 year old grandson - brilliant at anything to do with sport but, although bright and capable, very reluctant and disorganised when it comes to more academic subjects. Our grandson responds well to praise and positive, helpful input - like any young person -  input which can be lacking  in some French schools, as I understand it.

In my view Deby's post hits the nail on the head.

Sue