Debra Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 My son was ill yesterday. He was throwing up from around 7am until midday and then was weak and had diarrhoea until the early evening. He really wasn't up to going to school today but will probably be fine tomorrow.I did what I usually do in these situations and gave him plenty of fluids, even though he kept being sick, to help flush out whatever had upset his stomach and keep him hydrated. Once he stopped being sick and started feeling a little hungry, I introduced BRAT diet foods to help combat the diarrhoea and also gave him loparamide as directed on the instructions that come with it. This morning he's had toast so we still haven't strayed from the BRAT diet foods but I'm sure he'll be able to manage more for lunch and eat a normal dinner with us, albeit a smaller portion than normal.The school rang, as they do, to ask where he is and I said he was ill. The secretary told me that in France they don't keep them off for 24 hours after been sick or having diarrhoea (no wonder so many bugs get around!) and I told her even though he hasn't been sick through the night, he wouldn't have been up to school today so I'd left him in bed. She asked if he's coming in tomorrow and I said yes, assuming he looks ok today. She asked if I've taken him to see the doctor and I said no, there wasn't any need. This latter is my problem. Any time I keep a child off sick they want to know if I've taken them to the doctor and I get the impression I'm supposed to drag them out in any weather to see a doctor as somehow they're not really ill if I don't do that! I really don't see the point of seeing a doctor for something like this (or a cold or flu) unless it doesn't clear up at what I consider to be a normal rate. Is this just a culture difference, a result of the whole 'I have coverage and a top-up so I'll get my money's worth and see the doctor at every opportunity' thing (even on a Sunday) or is there some rule that says you have to see a doctor if you keep a child off school? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 These are the rules about attendancehttp://vosdroits.service-public.fr/F1899.xhtmlIf they start getting awkward you can always ask your Doctor to visit.It costs an extra 10€ but I have always been reimbursed on the few times I have really felt the need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 My kids were ill from time to time, it happens, but I was always on the phone to the school the moment I thought that someone would be there. They never called me, I called them. And if they were uppity with me, I would simply have said that my child was still ill, because, IMO they still are for a full day after a gastro. If they had asked if I had seen a doctor, I would say that if they got any worse, I'd be taking them to see the toubib and if not, then they should be in the following day and if not, I'd call again at the same time the following day. And our GP did not appreciate having his waiting room clogged up with minor ailments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Posted November 19, 2012 Author Share Posted November 19, 2012 That's always been my attitude, Idun, but because they always ask the question I wondered if it was a requirement.The procedure isn't supposed to be that we phone but that we fill in an authorised absence slip which they hand into the CPE upon their return but maybe I'll start phoning instead! Norman that link says no medical certificate is necessary but that we should let them know so perhaps that's the answer. I expect I'll still get asked if we've seen a doctor but at least I now know it's not a requirement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Yes they can only require it in certain cases:http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/F20583.xhtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Its a good thing to phone them and let them know, its also a good thing that they phone you if you dont, if a child goes missing for whatever reason, hopefully just a missed bus etc, then what could be precious time will not be lost.Re asking about the médécin, maybe they are just being a little insistent, I always asked my employees the same question but some families might reply that they dont have the money for a consultation and in that case the conseilleur d'education or whatever the name is may offer to help in the interests of the child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Posted November 19, 2012 Author Share Posted November 19, 2012 My husband did try to call but we can't always get a line out. We asked whether it was necessary for this reason and were told no - what is necessary is to fill in the absence slip. I could send them an email as our internet connection is often working when the phone line isn't (we have Alsatis and it isn't very reliable sometimes). It's not calling that's a problem - if they mentioned that then we'd call but it's the doctor thing. I'd wonder if it was because it's a gastro thing and it might fall under one of those contagious diseases listed and so they expect you to see a doctor just in case, but the secretary asked the same when my other son was bad with a cold/flu last time. It's not that we don't have the money for a consultation but that I don't believe in seeing a doctor for something that I can treat at home and for which the doctor will only tell me to do what I'm doing anyway. It's also that it's more comfortable for the child to stay home. If it was our UK doctor he'd make it clear we didn't really need to see him and would be quite annoyed if we called him out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitty Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I've had a number of children in French schools and I have never needed a doctor's note for an absence due to illness. I have always followed the procedure set down by the school (each one has been different) and signed a note upon their return. However, first thing, I would telephone the Vie Scolaire to explain their illness and how long I felt that they would be absent.In one case, one of my chiklren was away for 3 weeks and I still did not need a doctor's note (even though one would have been forthcoming if they had wanted it). I did keep them informed about what was happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 But the school has illustrated that they don't just want the slip filling in when the child returns, haven't they? They obviously want to know, so it is sot of them to not want the parents to be in touch. And yes, an email, if you couldn't call, sounds like a very good idea. As Chancer wisely mentioned, what if your child had gone missing and they followed their own protocol and were going to wait for a few days to get in touch. So by the time you realised that your kid hadn't got home, because some kids don't get home for hours after the schools have closed, my son used to get in at 19h, after leaving for college at 6.40am. Then the school would be closed and it would be very very difficult to deal with. When I believe rules are stupid, I ignore them, and let them put it down to me being an ignorant anglaise, which never bothered me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Posted November 19, 2012 Author Share Posted November 19, 2012 They're ok with us not phoning as I've said. A child wouldn't go missing without their siblings noticing. We phone if the line is working and if they were all off we'd go over the road and phone from a mobile phone if it wasn't, as there wouldn't be anyone to tell them or for them to check with. It was whether I'm obliged to see a doctor that I wasn't sure of and now Norman has pointed out that it isn't obligatory, I feel better.Maybe it's just that the secretary has a list of questions she's supposed to ask when a child is off sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Posted November 19, 2012 Author Share Posted November 19, 2012 Just had a thought - maybe she phoned me because the boys are in different classes this year and its not so easy to check. I think what I'll do from now on is send them an email at the point when I make the decision they're not going in - then there is no worry about phone lines or one child remembering to tell the other's principal teacher that they're sick.Still don't fancy sending them in when they've been ill all the day before - or dragging them out to see a doctor to prove it or agree with me that they shouldn't go in, either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Maybe its because when they return they are not taking a cocktail of anti-biotics and drugs several times a day like the other children so they think that they were either not ill at all or you are neglecting their welfare by not running to the quack and the pharmacie at the first sign of a sniffle or upset stomach [I] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 Could be! I don't like giving them drugs unless I really have to. That's the first time I've ever given one of my kids loperamide to stop diarrhoea and that was because it was the worst case I've seen. I have this idea that they need to wash the system out and taking something to stop that working might just hold the germs in but in this case, I really felt he needed something to help. He's gone to school bright and cheery today and is off the BRAT diet so my treatment seems to have worked! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Well your brat diet sounds sensible and very healthy, but, [:D] it isn't quite what french friends would 'tell me' one should eat if a gastro struck. Boiled rice, and rice water, pureed carrots and for adults, neat pastis. And a friend who was flying to South America when her small baby took ill was told to give him Coca Cola by an american doctor and she did, and if I say very reluctantly, I mean it and it worked. She was well impressed and a convert.I agree that I reckon that the system is emptying itself for a reason, and I am loathe to take anything unless really necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 :) my husband would be impressed with the pastis medicine!Re coke - that's one I've used for years (since my eldest was a baby) but I have to stress it is flat coke and not straight from the bottle carbonated coke. You put a little sugar in and that makes it fizz up and then go flat. I give that if they have gripe pains and it works really well to stop the pain. I don't give it when they're vomiting or have the runs (unless it is the latter alone and they have gripe pains). Sugared water works for babies too.I can't remember who told me about that but I do remember being impressed at the time because I tried it myself and being prone to ulcers, coke wouldn't be the first thing I would think of but it worked! It's the high potassium in the BRAT diet that's supposed to help stop diarrhoea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Doctor Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Best thing for gastroenteritis type probs is water, lots of it, small amounts frequently (if it is down for 15 mins they've got it in their system) adding up to about 200ml per hour (whilst awake). Very dilute low sugar squash does well too and is a bit less boring than water, but avoid sugary drinks or caffeinated drinks, as the latter can make you pee out more than you take in. Food should be avoided for 24 hours, reason being that the bowel is usually inflamed, so giving it a natural rest is a good thing, whilst the fluids avoid dehydration. Any bugs are then shed naturally. The mistake which most people make is to start eating too early, usually at the first signs of hunger, so the bowel doesn't settle and the diarrhoea continues. Loperamide and similar really should be avoided even if the diarrhoea is very frequent and profuse, as it can slow down the overall recovery. If however the diarrhoea continues unabated for 2-3 days despite fluids only sometimes it is necessary to use it. Antibiotics have no place in treating most of these conditions and can make the diarrhoea worse in certain instances. As most gastroenteritis is over by and large within 24-72 hours neither a medical consultation, medication or tests are usually necessary. There are always exceptions of course, including infants and very small children, who are more vulnerable to dehydration and can uncommonly get quite poorly.As for seeing a Dr every time a child is off school, that is a nonsense in any country and should be resisted. In my experience parents are usually best judge. The GPs have got plenty to do without as idun says, seeing minor ailments clutter up their surgeries, 23 euros or not. If it isn't a legal requirement, don't do it. Tell the school by all means, but just get your child back to school as soon as you think they can tolerate it. [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 DD, if we weren't both already spoken for, I might propose.[:D]Water, water, more water or a glass of weak squash.. The only time I've advised either of my offspring to go anywhere near a doctor for a gastro was when my youngest (then already 20) had just started an industrial placement, and, after less than a week, was struck down. Three factors influenced that decision:- he is a food scientist and was working in an environment where food is manufactured, so not a good idea to go to work!!!- he is unusual (especially compared to my other son) in that he has always dragged himself in to school, university or work however ill he feels, so if he's saying he can't go, he's genuinely ill,- it was his first week in his placement, and employers tend to by quite sceptical about someone calling in sick after such a short time.Anyway, it was a good job I did, because his gastro turned out to be food poisoning... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Of course this thread is about children and school, but the attitudes in France are possibly influenced by the need to get an arrêt de travail from a Doctor if you are workinghttp://vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/F303.xhtmlI don't think that self-certification counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Posted November 21, 2012 Author Share Posted November 21, 2012 I know coke is a diuretic but any idea why it soothes gripe pains, DD?15 mins is good to know. He was throwing it back up again pretty quickly and I was wondering whether he actually absorbed any. I feel that it's better to drink lots of water because as well as washing out whatever is upsetting them it helps and is less painful if they actually have something to vomit up rather than just doing that dry heaving thing. If things don't improve quickly I usually move to a home made rehydration solution which has a bit of salt and sugar in it (can't remember off the top of my head - I usually look up the recipe when I need it). I remembered I have some Smecta sachets in the medicine cupboard from when my other son had a period where he just seemed to have the runs all the time. It was when he first started college and continued on and off for weeks and I was concerned there was something wrong with either the water or the food there so I took him to see the doctor! The doctor thought it must be nerves and said to stop him having milk in the mornings because that doesn't agree with some children and to give him Smecta when he had a bout. The son who was ill this weekend has recovered well and has no stomach upset now but for future reference, is the Smecta better than giving a child loparamide if the diarrhoea is acute? Not a nice subject I know, but I gave him it (unusually for me) because it was really bad, like water, and he couldn't hold it and was quite upset about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Lovely, thankyou for reminding me about the brand name......... 'Smecta'....... Pansements Intestinaux. What a wonderful expression that is[:D][:D][:D]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Doctor Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 No idea why coke would help the pains Debra. Interestingly enough my first job as a Dr was on a paediatric infections ward and we looked after a lot of gastroenteritis as part of that. The children hardly ever needed a drip putting up, but the nurses were probably just a little bit tougher with the fluids only regime than the parents, as of course there was no emotional attachment to get in the way. Anyway, we used to use peppermint water (prepared in the pharmacy) as treatment for the griping pains, and it worked really well. In fact, peppermint oil capsules are still used to treat the pain of irritable bowel syndrome, which is also of a griping, colicky nature, so peppermint water is highly recommended if you're stuck (and if you can get hold of it from a pharmacy - not sure how easy that is in France).The electrolyte sachets (Dioralyte, Rehidrat, etc) are also very useful for younger children as gastroenteritis can affect the electrolyte balance in this young age group in severe cases. Water is probably ok for 24-48 hours then the sachets might be needed. That being said, if you've already got some you can kick off straight away with them, though they have a slightly salty taste so sometimes aren't well tolerated (when I was in the said job above, for a joke one of the nurses made me a cup of tea made with water and a plain dioralyte sachet, I nearly threw up myself it was so foul!). Smecta is a more modern version of Kaolin, a clay-based product which used to be combined with minute amounts of morphine. I don't know if Smecta is very effective, and certainly using clay or similar products went out with the ark in the UK. Having said that, it is a more natural way of treating the diarrhoea than loperamide, which just stops the bowel in its tracks. Pleased your little fella has fully recovered now, its amazing how quickly kids bounce back to full health, but thankfully they usually do! [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Posted November 21, 2012 Author Share Posted November 21, 2012 They still sell Kaolin and Morphine in our chemist in the UK - I've got a couple of bottles of that in the cupboard too that I brought over with me! Wouldn't recommend it then?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Doctor Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Not really, not harmful but out-dated compared to the approach I outlined earlier. [:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Pansements intestinaux are still very popular in France. As are suppos for manys a treatment and once I got used to the idea of suppos, thought that they were brilliant. Lots of things are just that bit different, including that awful red stuff people put on small wounds. My GP's in France often prescribed homeopathic treatments, little plastic tubes with what looked like crystals in them, that had to be taken in rather great quanitites, but I cannot for the life of me remember why! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Posted November 21, 2012 Author Share Posted November 21, 2012 That red stuff is brilliant though, Idun - heals wounds really well. Horrible to get off though and of course looks bad for ages - picture a 4 yr old covered in chicken pox with that painted on!The little (orange and purple) tubes of crystals were prescribed to my son who had the nervous stomach - one was to calm him down but I can't remember what the other was for. I'm not sure whether they weren't just a placebo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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