Motorbikes and filtering

[Sundaydriver]

Warning to bikers - filtering is now officially illegal in France 

Extract from the french motorcycle press:

The verdict is set in stone. The Ministry of Transport has decided that filtering between lanes of traffic is a prohibited practice.

"Riding between traffic lanes is a grey area in legal terms" explained Catherine Herviou, legal co-ordinator for the French Motorcycle Federation, "so the police are now interpreting certain traffic rules in order to stamp out the practice. On trunk roads and motorways, filtering has recently been classified as undertaking, which attracts a 135 euro fine, three penalty points and a possible ban of up to three years. It is clear that filtering urgently needs to be given a proper legal status"

Filtering has always been tolerated by french motorists, albeit subject to sporadic law enforcement. In June, the CRS nicked over 60 riders who were filtering on the A4 motorway outside Paris. In response, around 400 local bikers staged a hour long demonstration at a nearby motorway toll booth, holding up the barriers and handing out protest information leaflets to 4,000 motorists who were then able to go through without paying.

The demo organisers explained "If filtering was made fully legal, it could be incorporated into driver/rider training. That way, drivers would take more notice of the presence of bikes and riders would learn to ride more carefully between traffic lanes.

Various propositions have been put forward, from riders who reckon that 50km/h between lanes must be practical, to training schools who feel that any speed differential between bikes and cars should not exceed 20km/h.

The transport ministry has received all of these propositions but prefers to preserve the current vague legal situation, an attitude which has satisfied no-one.

[Brilec]

Yes, I saw this elsewhere.

The problem is that the article contradicts itself as I see it. It starts off by saying the verdict is set in stone, the Ministry of transport has decided that filtering between lanes of traffic is a prohibited practice.

It then goes on to say that there have been many representations on this subject, and finishes by stating -

The transport ministry has received all of these propositions but prefers to preserve the current vague legal situation, an attitude which has satisfied no-one.

So no change then really. However, the CRS apparantly did book a hundred or so motorcyclists on the Peripherique recently, so Bikers take heed.

[peterw]

So they have a name for it do they! "Filtering" is one of my pet hates. I have lost track of the number of times I have been abused by a biker whilst I am driving in the left most lane, for not being far enough over( read scraping the left side of my car on the concrete barriers in Paris) I am all for road ettiquette and letting other drivers through etc but the fact is that most of the bike riders expect to be able to travel at ridiculous speeds through buchons and when  it is clearly not safe to do it for example in heavy traffic when there is a tendency for drivers to be ducking and weaving between lanes it is ludicrous for bikers to expect to be able to travel at 130k; plus when the body of traffic might be travelling at say 90 km. Not being entirely familiar with the french traffic laws covering such subtleties, I had assumed that the \French had decided to promote bike riding by passing laws that promoted filtering. Now I know better!

[Dog]

Car drivers that do not make room for motorcycles should not be allowed on the roads.

[Jc]

Do you mean filtering which I would consider being done at a reasonable speed or are they talking about the motorcycles on the Peripherique that go past you 60 m/h quicker.

[peterw]

"Car drivers that do not make room for motorcycles should not be allowed on the roads."

Dog what do you mean by "making room"?

Do you mean that we should allow motorcyclists to travel at whatever speed that they like without deference to the other users on the road?

Or do you mean that we should be aware of motorcyclists and their safety?

The problem as I see it and I suspect that many other motorists do as well, is that motorcyclists demand that there be kept open a virtual express way just for their use. This as I explained in my original post can be extremely dangerous under certain busy road conditions. Why should motorists who have to travel at 60km on the B.P , be expected to make way for a motorcyclist who wants to travel at 150km in the same traffic conditions? Surely a motorbike  can put up with a little inconvenience like the rest of us?

[Brilec]

Car drivers that do not make room for motorcycles should not be allowed on the roads

I don't think you should take this too seriously.

I also ride a bike, and yes I do filter in slow, heavy traffic when I consider it safe to do so. However, I am also of the opinion that it is better to be 5 minutes late in this world than risk being years early in the next. I also ride with the assumption that I am invisible to all other road users.

There are all types of people on the roads, don't take the actions of the aggressive few to represent all of that user group. And that works in all countries, for all types of vehicle.

 

Brian.

[dinks]

I was going to post just after peterws post but thought (don’t bite)

I guess that your just one of the car drivers that sits in a lane in a queue of cars and that’s the only time you use your mirrors , Then you see a bike coming and think WHY  should I have to sit hear and the bike just gets to go down the middle of all the traffic .

And because your so frustrated you end up pulling your cage that you feel so safe in as far across as you can to stop the bike getting past.

Learn to use your mirrors and see some of the other traffic on the roads .

And the when you just decide to change lanes just because you think the other  lane if faster then you might just see that bike coming .

As a motorcyclist I don’t expect any car to make room for me , As I look at all cars as a danger to me, 30 years on bikes has taught me that .

Generally most car drivers in France are more aware of bikes and do give them more room and that’s there choice .

But in the cities  its dog eat dog ,and you all have your blinkers on .

And when you finally knock one off You will say the same as all the other car drivers

SORRY I DID NOT SEE HIM

[peterw]

"I guess that your just one of the car drivers that sits in a lane in a queue of cars and that’s the only time you use your mirrors , Then you see a bike coming and think WHY  should I have to sit hear and the bike just gets to go down the middle of all the traffic ."

 

No I dont think that. If you took the time to read my posts you would see that ...... You have ignored much of what I have said.

[Lizfjr]

If there is room, motorists should respect motorcyclist's ability to get through. Riding in France is usually a revelation compared to the UK: there is far more awareness of bikes and making progress is much easier.

Motorcyclists don't own bikes to sit in queues.

Well. Not unless they ride those big fat bikes with great lardy panniers and even then they have been known to take certain liberties.

[dinks]

lardy panniers !

It’s the bikes that pull trailers that you  have to watch out for ,they wont even more room and tend to be going a lot faster

[peterw]

Motorcyclists don't own bikes to sit in queues.

That quote just about encapsulates the whole problem. Do you really think that people own cars to sit in queues either? The concept that a motor bike gives you special rights on the road is flawed.

 

[Brilec]

NO vehicle gives special rights to anyone unless it has a flashing blue light on it.

Sadly there are people from all areas of driving who don't see it this way, from the truck driver who thinks might is right, through the white van driver, who is always in a hurry. Then there is the car driver who thinks that just because he has put his indicators on he has right of way over all other traffic. And lastly you get the biker who doesn't see why anyone should be allowed to hold him up. I've had them behind me when I have been filtering on a bike, but obviously not fast enough.

[peterw]

Brilec, I have no problems with Motorcyclists with your attitude- you obviously are a responsible road citizen. You are right there are bad drivers driving all sorts of vehicles- motorcyclists included. It is those motorcyclists that my comments are directed, they are the ones that think that I must have my eyes glued to the rear vision mirror 100% of the time so that I dont endanger the Cyclist going 150km through 80km traffic(this does not mean that I dont use my mirrors by the way). Should I be expected to ignore all my other road responsibilities ie looking forwards sideways and actualy driving the car, just so that I can accomodate the selfish needs of of a few Cyclists who bought their bike thinking "Ahhhhh.... thats the end of queues for me!!!!"

Like everything in life it is the selfish few that take things to the extreme(The no queues for me brigade) that spoil it for the rest of us(The responsible riders).

 

[Brilec]

I forgot the cyclist (pedal) who assumes that red lights are only for wimps.

As fare as filtering is concerned, you have firstly to make the distinction of normal overtaking, and moving between lines of slower moving traffic, which is the normal definition. In this latter case, excessive speed would certainly be considered as driving without due care in England, if anything untoward happened.

I gather from information on this in another forum, that bike speeds on the peripherique are often really excessive, though fortunately I have never had the pleasure? of using this bit of tarmac, nor do I ever want to.

Currently there is proposed legislation on increased control of driving tests and licences before the european parliament. Bike licences are very much a part of this, and it only takes the attitude and behavoiur of a few to ruin things for the remainder.

To go back to the original post, with the french ministry talking of completely banning filtering, you have to remember that this body is centred in Paris, so most of the ministers' experience of bikes will be on the peripherique.

[Blackadder<IMG src="http:forums.livingfrance.comimagesline.gif"><BR>Blackadder<BR>Keighley and Creuse]

peterw.....at last you have addressed 'the minority of bike riders' as opposed to 'most' which is how you addressed us in your opening post.

I am a bike rider, cyclist and car driver. I filter on my bike, never more than 15 mph faster than other road users, (22 yrs a biker and never been knocked off) i occasionally go through red lights on my push bike, the reason being that i am slow off the mark from the lights and the last time I was knocked off, from behind, was by a blind motorist who 'didn't see me' and then tried to blame me for it. (His 8 points and fine at court may have changed his driving viewpoint) I run the odd red light through self preservation and if i get stopped and done, so be it, at least i'd be alive to grumble about it....

As a car driver I do 20,000 miles a year, there are some good and bad drivers about.

I am not one of the 'most car drivers' you refer to.

You'll twig that its YOUR suppositions that have ellicited responses from others.

Talk about being tarred with the same brush.

[dinks]

Sit back and read your posts

In one breath your saying its not right to filter and in the other you saying that some one who filters with the( assumption that they are invisible to all others ) has the right attitude

I brought my present  motorcycle because it like the many other bikes gives me the  freedom that you don’t get in  a  car.

One of the freedoms it gives me is that if I wish I can and do filter ( be that illegal or not)

That is one of the choices that I have  (but if in the car  I do not have that choice)

But being in the car or on the bike its my choice as to how fast I wish to go and how fast the road conditions allow me to go .And that’s my judgment of the conditions .

 

How can any one who decides to filter at what ever speed they decide, be spoiling it for the rest of  Us

  (The responsible riders )  I.A.M member

 

[Lizfjr]

Dinks, even worse than those with trailers are those with BLACK bikes and trailers. Now they really really are the selfish ones and asking for it in my opinion. I mean how on earth is a person in a car supposed to know they're there? Oh yes. Lardy panniers too. I mean how much beer do bikers really need to carry?

And while we're having a rant, what about all those over powered British bikes. I mean do you know that there are people riding around France on 145+bhp bikes who think that 100 just isn't enough.

Now can you get back in line please all of you and form an orderly QE QUE KEW. There you see. It's so long since I did it I can't even spell it.

[VJ]

I use my mirrors and always allow the Bikers through.and as they go by wish I was on the open road on a bike and not in the car

Life is to short to stuff a mushroom.mmmm Now a 145 bhp plus sounds heaven

[dinks]

IT IS

[Lizfjr]

              

[VJ]

now I am really sad

[Brilec]

I must say that any caution I might show when on the bike is not so much down to being a responsible motorist/cylist but more about self preservation.

 

I did read a letter in a motorcyle journal recently where a car driver was complaining about a fast filterer knocking his wing mirror off. The biker then continued into the distance without so much as a "sorry".

Whichever side of the fence you sit, you have to admit that this type of event is likely to give a bad name to bikers in general. (The car driver was also a biker by the way).

[Lizfjr]

Well you're right. Self preservation is the only reason I'm still unscathed after 25 years' riding. That's why I made my daughters take their compulsory bike training before ever getting behind the wheel of a car.

There's a fascinating survey in MCN this week about motorists attitudes to bikers. Motorist perception of bike speed is often very poor and they fail to realise that a bike that is filtering through near stationaery traffic may well only be going 10 KPH faster than they are.

I had a lovely filtering experience on the M6 last week. Had a couple of car drivers doing that thing where they pretend not to see you (headlights and hii viz jackets can be difficult o see when you're fiddling with your mobile/radio/shopping). Behind them was a police range rover which swung out of my way and flashed them to move too. So they did.

[Alcazar]

I use my mirrors and always allow the Bikers through.and as they go by wish I was on the open road on a bike and not in the car

Nah............I use my mirrors and let them go past, then laugh myself silly at 'em all done up in leathers and helmet and gloves, while the outside temperature is near 40 degrees Celsius.

Or I laugh insanely as they go by in the pouring rain Or hail Or snow Or sleet

Bikers: It's not clever, and it's not "big" Grow up!

Alcazar, (flame-suit now firmly in place)