Use of Sat Nav systems

[Lacypierre]

I've been told that its illegal to have some types of Sat Nav units in your car whilst driving in France, in particular those which warn you of speed cameras.  Does anyone know about this or is someone just pulling my leg?!

Cheers

[Brilec]

I believe that radar warning devices are illegal to use in France, but I don't think it applies to sat navs which show the location of fixed controles. First of all, they normally have a warning sign before them, and IGN publish maps with the locations on.

[Baz]

The use of any type of radar detector in France is totally prohibited. The use of Sat Navs is perfectly alright, but if the system contains any additional radar detector I would strongly advice disabling that part of the system when driving in France. I have reproduced below  a paragraph from the AA touring tips for France and Monaco dated April 2005. which details the seriousness of the offence.

"It is absolutely prohibited to carry, transport or use radar detectors. The detector will be confiscated, a heavy deposit toward fine imposed, followed by a court summons, with the possible risk of the confiscation of the vehicle."

Baz

[chenauds]

The Sat Nav systems do not "detect radars", they have an internal

database of fixed radar locations and advise when you ar approaching

the area. Carrefour at the moment are selling GPS based radar warning

devices and they state, unambiguously' that they are legal systems.

[Daktari]

Having recently purchased a Sat-Nav system & the option of loading

as POIs ("points of interest" !) the location of known speed cameras,

this thread is of direct personal interest as I drive in France quite

regularly.

Neither my French nor my knowledge of legal matters are up to much -

but I have downloaded the relevant article of the official French "Code

de la Route" which reads as follows at the bottom of this rather long

first post[:#]:

My question for a better French speaker / lawyer than I is whether this

actually does make Sat-Nav GPS legal or not - what does it mean to déceler la

présence ou perturber le fonctionnement - I take it as reading to detect the presence or disturb the function of ....  Does this really only include active radar detectors or are GPS Sat-Navs effectively included?

Article R413-15

(Décret nº 2003-642 du 11 juillet 2003 art. 5 VI Journal Officiel du 12 juillet 2003)

I.

- Le fait de détenir ou de transporter un appareil, dispositif ou

produit de nature ou présenté comme étant de nature à déceler la

présence ou perturber le fonctionnement d'appareils, instruments ou

systèmes servant à la constatation des infractions à la législation ou

à la réglementation de la circulation routière ou de permettre de se

soustraire à la constatation desdites infractions est puni de l'amende

prévue pour les contraventions de la cinquième classe.

Le fait de faire usage d'un appareil, dispositif ou produit de même nature est puni des mêmes peines.

II. - Cet appareil, ce dispositif ou ce produit est saisi. Lorsque

l'appareil, le dispositif ou le produit est placé, adapté ou appliqué

sur un véhicule, ce véhicule peut également être saisi.

III. - Toute personne coupable de l'infraction prévue au présent

article encourt également les peines complémentaires suivantes :

1º La peine complémentaire de suspension, pour une durée de trois ans

au plus, du permis de conduire, cette suspension pouvant être limitée à

la conduite en dehors de l'activité professionnelle ;

2º La confiscation du véhicule, lorsque le dispositif qui a servi ou

était destiné à commettre l'infraction est placé, adapté ou appliqué

sur un véhicule.

Toute condamnation donne lieu de plein droit à la confiscation du

dispositif qui a servi ou était destiné à commettre l'infraction.

IV. - Cette contravention donne lieu de plein droit à la réduction de deux points du permis de conduire.

[WendyG]

I have no personal knowledge of these systems, but on the boat we were talking to someone who said that they had a detection system in their car, which was not connected, and when stopped by the police they pointed this out, this was ignored and they were told that unless they handed the equipment over and paid a heavy fine, they would have their vehicle confiscated.

I have been thinking of buying a sat nav but am concerned that the more expensive ones have radar speed detection included.  Once again it appears that what is legal in UK is not necessarilty legal in France.

Is it worth the risk?

Wendy G

[Russethouse]

Surely sat nav comes as standard on some cars now ? What happens then ?

 

 

[Miki]

[quote user="Russethouse"]

Surely sat nav comes as standard on some cars now ? What happens then ?

[/quote]

Well as far as coming to us, it means they will still end up in the big

muddy field 800 metres from our house ! Technology..... huh !!

[Quillan]

[quote user="daktari"]Having recently purchased a Sat-Nav system & the option of loading as POIs ("points of interest" !) the location of known speed cameras, this thread is of direct personal interest as I drive in France quite regularly.

Neither my French nor my knowledge of legal matters are up to much - but I have downloaded the relevant article of the official French "Code de la Route" which reads as follows at the bottom of this rather long first post[:#]:

My question for a better French speaker / lawyer than I is whether this actually does make Sat-Nav GPS legal or not - what does it mean to déceler la présence ou perturber le fonctionnement - I take it as reading to detect the presence or disturb the function of ....  Does this really only include active radar detectors or are GPS Sat-Navs effectively included?


Article R413-15
SNIP

[/quote]

Below is a litteral translation of the document you posted. I think the key to your question lays in the term detect the presence or to disturb the operation of apparatuses I like you would want a proffesional, legal translation and explaination but to me a GPS is not a detector, it simply tells you where the fixed speed cameras are. I would argue that this is no difference to finding their location on a map be it paper or internet based of which there are many and are sold in shops in France. The second part of that phrase relates to actually jamming a machine by a external system (same in the UK) or applying such modifications as to make your numberplate unreadable (you used to get special spray that can stop the camera reading the plate.

Fixed, installed at new GPS systems for cars such as Becker, Pioneer etc do not, to the best of my knowledge, allow for the download of POI's.

As to detection by other means like a Snooper for instance I have to say that in my personal expierience they do not work in France especially with hand held speed guns. I ws told by the manufacturer that this is because they use diferent systems here and you would have to buy a French version. French versions do not exist as unlike the UK it is illegal to sell them in France.

Literal Translation

I.                     The fact of holding or of transporting one apparatus, device or product of nature or presented as being likely to detect the presence or to disturb the operation of apparatuses, instruments or systems being used for the observation of the infringements to the legislation or for regulation of the road traffic or to allow to withdraw itself from observation of the aforesaid infringements is punished fine planned for infringements of the fifth class.

II.                  
The fact of making use of an apparatus, device or product of comparable nature is punished same laws.

III.                  This apparatus, this device or this product are seized. When the apparatus, the device or the product are placed, adapted or applied to a vehicle, this vehicle can also be seized.

 

Any guilty person of the infringement envisaged with the present article also incurs the following complementary laws:

The complementary law of suspension, for one three years duration at most, of driving licence, this suspension being able to be limited to control in outside of the occupation;

 

IV.              
Confiscation of the vehicle, when the device which was useful or was intended to commit the offence is placed, adapted or applied to a vehicle.
Any judgment gives full place to the confiscation of the device which was useful or was intended to commit the offence.

 

This infringement gives full right to the reduction of two points of the driving licence.

[Baz]

I think the AA explanation that I previously posted above is very clear on the situation, so I will repeat  "It is absolutely prohibited to carry, transport or use radar detectors." GPS systems are not radar detectors and if they indicate the location of fixed cameras that is permitted, many new road maps of France also show the positions of fixed cameras..

Miki said: Well as far as coming to us, it means they will still end up in the big muddy field 800 metres from our house ! Technology..... huh !!  This is a very valid point as maps used on GPS systems can be few years old, this is particularly noticeable with new roads when one appears to be travelling across fields. But once you get used to the system it is well worth having.

I have a built in SatNav as standard in my new Honda Accord and was annoyed when I realised that the mapping was out of date. Fortunately Honda are providing me free of charge a brand new disc which becomes available at the end of the month, it will be interesting to see how up to date it is.

Baz

[Jonzjob]

I remember a thread some while back about a guy who borrowed his son's car. There was a completely broken and unusable radar dector with the detector in the windscreen, obviously broken. He was stopped by the gendarme, they ripped it out and one of them jumped on it several times and then gave him a very hefty fine.

I also agree that GPS systems do  not detect speed cameras and that they only show the position as does some of the IGN maps. So if the one was illegal so would the other need to be and IGN is an official French government company, I think?

John.

[Brilec]

All the fixed speed cameras I have seen in France, have a warning sign about 200 metres before you get to them, "for your safety". Thus a GPS which repeats this warning sign cannot be a problem. What is a problem is a device which senses the radar frequencies, and will thus warn of mobile speed traps.

I am not aware of any GPS which also does this, though I accept I don't know everything.

[Daktari]

Comments that a GPS unit does not rely on radar & cannot be used to actively detect speed cameras are of course correct.

One possible difference between a GPS unit with speed camera locations loaded into its memory & a road atlas is that whilst the Atlas is almost by definition out-of-date by the time it is published, & only displays known fixed camera locations, the GPS unit can be updated with new camera locations and will display not only the fixed locations but also the commonly used mobile camera sites (I think that we all tend to know the sites frequently used locally, but not when we are travelling further afield).

Although we might imagine that mobile speed cams are around every corner, in practice there tend to be a limited number of these sites due to considerations of sight-lines, parking, etc [;)]