Insurance agent not sending out renewal till after policy expires

[Chancer]

I had my doubts when I first insured with this agent of AXA, I already had my house insured and wanted to insure the car but their quote was higher than another agent. I was initially pleased when they reduced the price but after carefull examination of the contract found that they had insured me for 11 months! They also did not give me any other documentation other than a vignette and a receipt.

I had a feeling that it was now due for renewal (in fact I had to recall after 11 months not one year!) and today 1/2 a  renewal slip arrived (dont know what was on the other half torn off) dated 8th of December asking for payment within 10 days as the insurance would expire on 1st January. They had posted this to me on January 2nd, one day after the expiration and 4 weeks after it had been printed.

To further confuse matters the vignette shows me to be insured until 31th January.

My questions are am I still insured till the end of the month allowing me to shop around?

Does the insurance automatically include a period of grace (at perhaps responsibilite civile) to the end of the renewal month? - I only actually have resposibilite civile cover.

Have I been tricked into having to renew with them as I have not given them sufficient notice of cancellation?

Thanks in anticipation, I will be walking for the time being!

[Clair]

You'll find some answers in these threads:

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/561544/ShowPost.aspx

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/561290/ShowPost.aspx

As an aside, a lot of insurance companies have fixed terms of contract.

For instance, a MAAF contract runs from 01/01 to 31/12. If you signed a contract during the year, it would be valid until 31/12 of that year.

[Sunday Driver]

It would appear from what you say that your insurance agent may have been involved in some very sharp practice.

You requested a quotation for a standard 12 month contract, so unless you agreed to a shorter period, then for him to offer a reduction based on only 11 months is clearly a deception. Did you examine the contract before you signed it?  Did you query it with the agent after you discovered the discrepancy?  It's a bit late to complain about this now, but if you still have the original 12 month quote it may help. In terms of the different dates, if the insurance certificate/vignette shows you have cover up to 31 January, then you are still insured.

Did you receive a complete certificate of insurance or just the small tear-off vignette to stick on your windscreen? 

Regarding the renewal notice, this is a bit of a mystery. 

The notice will have been generated by AXA HQ and normally sent direct to your home address to arrive at least two weeks before the renewal date, so that matches the issue date of the notice.  The botton half of the renewal notice contains the statutory declaration of your rights under the Loi Chatel - giving you a limited period in which to cancel. This right is extended in your favour if the notice arrives after the due date, so you aren't necessarily disadvantaged if they are late getting the notices out.

I suspect that this agent may have received the renewal notice to post on to you and he has forgotten to do it, and has torn off the bottom of your notice to avoid you knowing of your cancellation rights.  On the face of it, this is a serious matter and if the scenario is correct, then the agent may have broken the law in a number of areas. 

I would confront him and ask for an explanation as to why the dates on the renewal notice and the vignette differ.  I would then ask him to explain why he sent you the incomplete renewal notice (make the assumption that he sent it and see if he denies it).  If you don't get a satisfactory response, then explain your next step will be to contact AXA's internal fraud department directly, and that you will be sending copies of everything to le direction departmental de la concurrence, de la consommation et de la repression des fraudes (DDCCRF).

Their address for the Somme is:

L'ARCHE - La Vallée des Vignes
43, avenue d'Italie
80094 AMIENS CEDEX 3

 

 

 

[Chancer]

Sunday Driver

Thanks for your response.

To answer your first questions, I wasn't really sure what was going on initially as my french was not to good then, I didn't bother to query or complain at the time, and am not complaining now about the initial discrepancy, only about them holding on to the renewal.

I received the vignette, an international motor insurance card and the terms and conditions (which they printed in the office), I never got a policy booklet or anything explaining my cover or the form to be filled out in an accident.

The terms and conditions show the date of assurance to be 20th Jan 2006 and the renewal date (echeance principale) at 01-01 (no year).

The renewal notice shows the period of cover to be from 01-01-07 to 31-12-07.

Both my vignette and international certificate show the term to be from 20-01-06 to 30-01-07.

Do you have anything to add or alter before I confront them tomorrow?

 

As a footnote on the renewal it shows the limits of liability (which I did not know as I never got the policy book) and the plafond for depannage/remorquage is 153 euros!

The policy is supposed to cover all of Europe, I can.t see 153 euros getting me towed off an autoroute to the nearest garage. Well worth the (I recall) 30 euros premium dontcha think?

[Dick Smith]

SD wrote

The notice will have been generated by AXA HQ and normally sent direct

to your home address to arrive at least two weeks before the renewal

date, so that matches the issue date of the notice.  The botton half of

the renewal notice contains the statutory declaration of your rights

under the Loi Chatel - giving you a limited period in which to cancel.

This right is extended in your favour if the notice arrives after the

due date, so you aren't necessarily disadvantaged if they are late

getting the notices out.

We received our AXA renewal notice today (dated 27th December), the date of renewal having been 1.1.07. There is no mention of annulment, and the money will be taken out tomorrow...

Just reading the letter, a couple of things confuse me slightly. What would be covered by 'catastrophes technologiques'?

And what does this mean (as opposed to say): "Catastrophes naturelles : montant légal qui prévoit un minimum de 1520€ en cas de sécheresse et 380€ dans les autres cas"

[Sunday Driver]

JR

Many insurance companies use a January-December "year" and my own insurance (MAAF) is the same.  So it sounds as if your 11 months is right.  That said, I'm puzzled as to how the certificate says 31 January, because it's usually printed out from the contract data.

So, it seems your agent correctly quoted you at the start - but it's still worth challenging him about the torn-off renewal notice and the delay in receipt.

My insurance doesn't have an "excess" for breakdown recovery, so I can't really comment on AXA's policy over this.  It does seem a bit mean, though....

Fluffy:

The loi Chatel was brought in because previously you had to cancel a certain time before the end of the contract - and of course, most people forgot about things and effectively ended up losing their choice and being tied into renewing.  The new law now requires the insurer to remind you of your rights in writing, typically as a clause on the renewal notice. I'd check it again for any reference to Loi Chatel, and if it doesn't, then you could query why not.

 

[Sunday Driver]

Fluffy:

Catastrophes technologiques suggests that it covers things like computers or TVs going pop because of electricity surges or your neighbourhood nuclear power station exploding.......

Does that sound convincing?[;-)]

 

[Chancer]

I think what must have happened is that they quoted me X euros (for one years cover, which would be the renewal premium this time round),  and the original printed quote (which I have thrown away) definitely was with the expiry after one whole year.

I said "I have been quoted less than that" so they tricked me by saying "OK we will insure you for Y" - without mentioning that the cover was now for "a French insurance year" i.e. expiring at the end of the year.

I reckon that they printed the vignette and the contract using the dates from the original quote (they had mis-spelt my name, it was corrected on the second quote but is wrong again on the vignette) and that I am actually now uninsured despite having a current vignette.

While I am on a mission am I receiving the maximum N.C.D. at 50%? I gave them proof of about 14 years I beleive.

[Ssc]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

It would appear from what you say that your insurance agent may have been involved in some very sharp practice.

Regarding the renewal notice, this is a bit of a mystery. 

The notice will have been generated by AXA HQ and normally sent direct to your home address to arrive at least two weeks before the renewal date, so that matches the issue date of the notice.  The botton half of the renewal notice contains the statutory declaration of your rights under the Loi Chatel - giving you a limited period in which to cancel. This right is extended in your favour if the notice arrives after the due date, so you aren't necessarily disadvantaged if they are late getting the notices out.

I suspect that this agent may have received the renewal notice to post on to you and he has forgotten to do it, and has torn off the bottom of your notice to avoid you knowing of your cancellation rights.  On the face of it, this is a serious matter and if the scenario is correct, then the agent may have broken the law in a number of areas. [/quote]

I have house insurance with Axa which was due for renewal 1/1/07 and experienced the same set of circumstances. Christmas Eve the renewal notice arrived minus the tear off slip. I assumed it was to prevent me cancelling. As I am happy with the policy I ignored it but they won't get away with that next year! I wonder if many Axa agents do this ?

Tony

[Dick Smith]

Thanks, SD, I don't really want to change, so I won't complain, but it's an interesting sidelight on how Axa operate. As for the technological catastrophes - well, I can't really see that coming to fruition, can you?

[Chancer]

An update

I have just visited some French friends, he explained that there is a limited "grace" period of insurance after the renewal date, he showed me his vignette which is valid for one year and 14 days, so it would appear that I am still insured although perhaps at the minimum legal requirement.

We also found in the "conditions particulieres" that I have to give 2 months notice of cancellation before the policy end "resiliable tous les ans avec preavis de 2 mois"

I am going to visit the agent tomorrow for an "exchange of views"! I hope that it will be satisfying to see how much my French has improved.

S.D do you have any specific advice regarding my rights to cancel?  I really do not want to renew with this broker and want to take away the house insurance also.

Or am I just being (too) British?

My French friends (who are well educated) agreed that it was bad but said that their insurance company does exactly the same, they say that I havn't the right (I often hear that phrase!) to cancel and I get the impression that they can't quite understand why I would want to.

[Sunday Driver]

The [url=http://www.assurland.com/Tout_savoir_sur_la_loi_Chatel.html?PartnerLinkId=327HL12]Assurland website[/url] contains a simple and very clear explanation of your rights under the loi Chatel, together with a link to the official LegiFrance webpage where you can print out the statutory Articles to show your broker.

 

[Will]

One thing we have found is that if you agree to re-insure with another company, they will take care of cancelling your old policy and replacing it with one of theirs when the time comes. At least, that's what our local AGF agent does. Even under Loi Chatel, there are legal procedures that can easily go wrong or be overlooked so it makes sense to let the professionals sort it out between them.

[opas]

Whoops! I have been driving around in the car and mobylette since the 1st of jan on last years vignette.......... will go and change them forthwith!

[Chancer]

A final update

When I asked the agent why he sent it out after (what I thought to be) the expiry of the insurance he explained that the vignette gave me an extra months cover and so they always send out the renewals at the end of the term and the customer has enough time to renew or not.

I asked him to show me the torn off section and to my embarrasment it was the vignette and international certificate not the explanation of rights under the law chatel.

I brought up the Loi Chatel and asked again why I had not been given the required notice? He said that they always send out the renewals at that time and the Loi Chatel had nothing to do with it. However when I showed him the printed Loi (with the first sentence describing the one month notice) he was very interested and photocopied it.

He said that if I did not want to renew I had 20 days to arrange alternative cover and could cancel without penalty (and also benefit from the extra months insurance).

By this time I was backpeddling and also pleased that I had been polite and not gone in with guns blazing! I asked him for a quote for multirisk (last year it was about 400 euro so I only took out responsibilite civile at 230 euro) after we had discussed my concerns regarding how little the insurer might pay out on a high mileage RHD car. I was pleasantly surprised to see that this time it was only about 60 euros more than I pay for the minimum.

He explained that in the event of a total loss they would pay out the Argus value (like glasses guide) with the adjustment for the high mileage (she has done 332000km's) any reduction for RHD would only be perhaps 200 euros and it would be his job to argue my case on that.

The amazing thing is to consider that 2 years ago I bought a 3 year old high mileage car, today with even higher mileage (and now 5 years old) she is worth (for insurance purposes) £1000 more than I paid for her!

[Sunday Driver]

Good result,  JR!

It certainly helps to know your canvellation rights - and to keep things civil...[:)]

Nor sure why he tore the insurance certificate off the renewal notice.  Mine came with all the certificates attached.

 

[Chancer]

SD

I would assume that it would not be wise to send out the new certificates until the customer has actually paid, that said he gave me mine and doesn't want me to pay until he visits me next week to reassess my house insurance (I now have more "pieces habitable").

Actually I have gone from thinking it is a bad to a good system, if for instance I were on a long holiday or didn't get the renewal notice the policy would be automatically renewed which I guess gives me more protection than the UK system.

[Sunday Driver]

That's certainly a good benefit in terms of tacitly renewable policies.  It's just that the loi Chatel now provides the balance of consumer rights to cancel in time that weren't there before. 

Glad everything's OK now...[:)]