Puissance Fiscale

[bixy]

Further to my post about registering a car, it seems I will need to know the PF of our cars. Does anyone know where there is a list?

Patrick

[Bugsy]

It should be shown on your Certificate of Conformity......................

[mint]

Bugbear, it's not as simple as all that.  Is it the braking horse power or whatever?  I posted this on another thread in reply to the OP.  It took no fewer than THREE fonctionieres from 3 different offices, my mairie, my sub prefecture and my prefecture to establish what the puissance was.  I dare say it's on the Certificate of Conformity but, where to look exactly?

[Val_2]

Perhaps if you mentioned the type of vehicles and engine size in litres and whether diesel or petrol we can compare. My 1.8 injection 16v petrol picasso for example is listed as 7cv yet my VW Scirocco 1.8 GTXi petrol is registered as 9cv so the BHP maybe the contributing factor.

[Bugsy]

[quote user="sweet 17"]Bugbear, it's not as simple as all that.  Is it the braking horse power or whatever?  I posted this on another thread in reply to the OP.  It took no fewer than THREE fonctionieres from 3 different offices, my mairie, my sub prefecture and my prefecture to establish what the puissance was.  I dare say it's on the Certificate of Conformity but, where to look exactly?[/quote]

Sorry S17, but it is that simple.

The C of T supplied by the manufacturers French HQ i.e. (Ford France) lists all relevent details of the vehicle including the Puissance Fiscal.

If you don't have this paperwork, of course, thats a whole new ball-game.

[Will]

CV is a far from simple matter. For a start the abbreviation is often used for the brake horsepower, but this is a totally different figure from the administrative horsepower. A not-untypical 90bhp diesel car will have a puissance fiscale of, perhaps, 5-6CV.

Since 1998 a formula has been used that takes into account, primarily, the carbon emissions. For several years prior to that an even more complicated formula was used that depended mainly on the forward gear ratios. Both of the formulae have been published here before, as has (I think - though I cannot find it) a link to a site that gave the puissance fiscale for many popular vehicles.

Even so, it's not that difficult to find out the CV. If you do not have a certificate of conformity for France, or you cannot find the figure, perhaps the easiest way is to go to an insurance agent to get a quote. You will need the VIN, and from that the agent should be able to find the CV on the database.

[Bugsy]

Have a look at this

[Sunday Driver]

Bugbear is correct.  This really is a simple process.

The only acceptable CV value for your specific vehicle is the official one held by the Centre Nationale de Réceptions des Véhicules (CNRV). 

In order to register an imported vehicle, you must provide the prefecture with the appropriate certificate of conformity.  The certificate will contain  the CNIT and/or e* codes which allows the prefecture to access the vehicle's homologation record on the CNRV database.  The CNRV data is then called up automatically to populate the prefecture's registration application record (including the official CV rating), from which, the carte grise is printed off.

 

 

[mint]

I am sure the info was there all the time.  Just my luck that I had to go to officials who do not know how to interpret the data.  I was able to fill in most of the application form using the Conformity Certificate but I got stuck on the puissance question and so did the 2 first people I saw.  Result, they could'nt work out the cost of the fee and, in the end, I went to my prefecture (a good distance away) and queued for over 2 hours to see someone who did work it out and I walked out with my carte grise.

By that time, it felt like the golden fleece 

[bixy]

Sorry, but it's not that simple. I have the certificate of conformity for my Mazda. Where there is a space for the pf there is nothing. A further confusion is that dear old Mazda have different model names for the vehicles they sell in France, so that when it comes to ordering parts, as with the headlights I am currently trying to get hold of, confusion reigns.

Patrick

[Will]

That's why it's best to work from the VIN, which is a unique number, that should be on the databases.

[bixy]

That's the theory Will. At the garage they were in contact with the Mazda concessionnaire who asserted that no such number existed!!

Patrick

[Will]

Why am I not surprised? [:)]

[Bugsy]

[quote user="bixy"]That's the theory Will. At the garage they were in contact with the Mazda concessionnaire who asserted that no such number existed!!

Patrick
[/quote]

Its fairly common knowledge that more people have problems getting Japanese vehicles into France than any other. Model differences, grey imports, headlights simply not available etc, etc.

Personally, I'd rather push my Jeep than drive a Japanese vehicle...................[:)][:)][:)]

 

[AnOther]

What the hell are they trying to achieve with all this Puissance nonsense anyway, what's the matter with plain old CC or BHP. Other countries seem to manage with these simple measures so why so complicated when it could be so simple and probably raise just the same amount of tax. But hey, this is France.....[:D]

[quote user="Bugbear"]Personally, I'd rather push my Jeep than drive a Japanese vehicle...................[:)][:)][:)][/quote]Never forget BB that a second class ride is better than a first class walk....[;-)]

[Will]

[quote user="ErnieY"]

Never forget... that a second class ride is better than a first class walk....[;-)]

[/quote]

Nice one Ernie, though I am not a particular lover of Japanese cars. It reminds me of the old saying about aircraft, looking, back in the 70s or so, at the so-called advances of technology (and I am probably going to get banned for this) that comparing a Spitfire with a Trident proved that one good screw was still much better than three blow jobs.

Much the same applies to puissance fiscale. There are almost exactly 50 years between my first proper car and my present one being made. Both are from the same (French) manufacturer. The first was 4CV - in fact that was the official model name. It weighed just over half a ton and had a 750cc engine developing just under 20bhp. Its successor weighs about twice as much, has an engine of twice the capacity, albeit a turbodiesel, with over four times the rated power. Yet it is rated at 5CV in France. Makes no sense whatsoever, particularly as it has no bearing on taxation, just what you pay for the carte grise. What a useless figure.

[AnOther]

And the fee for a carte gris isn't a tax........could have fooled me Will.........[;-)]

Liked the simile BTW [:D]

 

[bixy]

Well, I don't particularly want to get into a discussion about whose car is better, but the reason we want to immatriculate our cars [both Japanese] is that they are so incredibly reliable, despite their age and miles. I can understand why so many people never bother to register their cars or just buy new. Who needs all the hassle - but as someone said above - hey, this is France.

I take it the answer to my original question is  - no.

Patrick

[Bugsy]

[quote user="Will"]Makes no sense whatsoever, particularly as it has no bearing on taxation, just what you pay for the carte grise. What a useless figure.[/quote]

Five years ago, when I registered our Jeep (4 litre petrol - PF 23) the girl in the prefecture said (as I handed over 575 euros)

(23 x 25euros) was the formula then.

"Thank you from the French Government"

Now, thats a bit expensive for a piece of grey card, dont you think?

[:D][:D][:D]

incidently, to do the same today the PF is nearly 800 euros.

 

"Well, I don't particularly want to get into a discussion about whose car is better,"

Lighten up Patrick, it was only said in a light-hearted way (that's what 'smilies' are for)

[bixy]

Lighten up, lighten up - whadya mean! I'm suffering from a crise de voiture!

Patrick

[Will]

[quote user="ErnieY"]

And the fee for a carte gris isn't a tax........could have fooled me Will

[/quote]

You're dead right of course Ernie, though most people insist that driving is cheaper in France because of no road tax.

Take a not untypical, economical car like mine. Because of its low carbon emissions, British road tax is, I think, £35 a year. Yet to register it in France, as a 5CV, I'd pay getting on for 200€. I'd have to keep it a few years to save money. And at about 60mpg the cheaper French diesel doesn't count for so much either. Still worth having it serviced in France though.

[Bugsy]

[quote user="bixy"]Lighten up, lighten up - whadya mean! I'm suffering from a crise de voiture!

Patrick[/quote]

I could say that's because you're driving a Japanese car...................but I won't..........................[:D][:D]

[mint]

Bugbear

You're just being provocative.  I've driven all sorts of cars, including 2 mercs, 2 volvos and I can put hand on heart and say I've preferred my Toyota Carina (God, how many years ago is that?) and my Mazda 626 more than those others.  Now I have a sedate Hyundai Lantra (underpowered, I know) but it gets me around great.  OH has just got rid of his Volvo V70 estate and is looking for a Corolla Verso or Mazda 6 Estate.

The Far Eastern stuff are just such fun to drive and almost boringly dependable.

Anyway what sort of bike do you ride?  Have you tried one of those Kawasaki whatever?  Mind you, I don't know anything about bikes, so I'm just teasing and trying to get you to come out with one of your sweeping statements about Japanese bikes, OK?

[Bugsy]

I'm just your average brit.

I ride an English bike (Triumph Sprint), drive a German car (Audi A4) and an old American Jeep (for use on our bit of land, towing trailer etc).

I refuse to buy Japanese wherever and whenever I can and you might laugh at my reasoning. I simply deplore their killing of dolphins and whales. I further abhor their fixation with tiger bile and bones and other such stuff that will eventually ensure yet another species gone for good.

Not trying to start any argument but you did ask.

[mint]

Good valid reasons, Bugbear, and I would never argue with anyone about their convictions.  But, if we were to avoid the goods of countries that kill and maim (animals and humans), it would be almost impossible to buy anything, don't you think?