Vehicle Type Approval Number and c of c

[AnOther]

In conjunction to Bugsys link try  SOLVIT , specifically set up to:

"solve without legal proceedings problems caused by the misapplication of Internal Market law by public authorities"

Sounds just the ticket then, go for it [;-)]

[Sunday Driver]

[quote user="Chris"]Ok, this is going to sound REALLY stupid but... if the Uk is part of Europe..and.. France is part of Europe..and.. theoretically we are all therefore working together for a single market..... why do we need CoCs etc? Or are vehicles made for the Uk market slightly inferior so that manufacturers need to prove to other countries their vehicles are safe for their roads? Peugeot are asking £100 for a 2005 Combi Partner - which everyone drives in France anyway, so I think that is excessive for producing a bit of paper to say the car's alright to drive in France - or am I missing something?[/quote]

Peugeot don't just produce cars that are alright to drive in France.

The vehicles they produce for commercial sale in the EU all conform to EU Whole Vehicle Type Approval, that's to say, a common set of technical and safety standards evidenced by an EU certificate of conformity which allows the owner to register his car in any EU member state without the need for further inspection or modification.

The vehicles they produce for commercial sale outside the EU do not have to comply with those mandatory EU technical and safety standards, so their specification may differ from the EU models. 

When you turn up with your 2005 Combi Partner you need to produce an EU CoC to prove it's compliant with EU regulations and not a car originally built for export to some obscure banana republic where anything goes, then re-imported via another foreign country whose registration procedures have no validity in France...... [;-)]

 

[Keni]

Yes, AnOther, had a look at that thread - but I am looking to change the headlights on my car - the thread seems to concern itself with dazzling oncoming drivers - what I am loooking to is the CoC -for another European country. If the lights are wrong in the UK for the beam, they fail the MOT, the same should go in France.

However, Peugeot are charging their customers large amounts of money to provide them with a piece of paper that says what we all know - namely the car is fit for use in France - another European country. Simply by charging/not providing the CoC at the time of purchase they are surely contravening the single market rules? The French side is equally wrong by ignoring the information from the DVLA V5C by demanding the CoC?

Don't all get hot about this though, mine is simply an enquiry, I am not looking to start another war.

[AnOther]

Not being into the form of madness called 'buying new cars' I cannot claim 1st hand experience but is it not the case that the originally supplied  CoC is surrendered on 1st registration ?

[Bob T]

Many people think that it is strange that France require a CofC to register a car here that is on UK plates. The French are not the only people who have their strange restrictions.

If you happen to fly a microlight that is UK registered, you are free to operate that microlight in France without asking permission or paying for the privilege, without time restriction. If you fly a French registered microlight and want to fly in the UK then you must get permission from the UK CAA, pay them €80, and they may let you fly there for 28 days in any one year.

Who says that there are common European rules?

[AnOther]

Not forgetting of course that if you took a French car to UK you would require a C of C to register it with DVLA [;-)]

[Bugsy]

[quote user="AnOther"]Not being into the form of madness called 'buying new cars' I cannot claim 1st hand experience but is it not the case that the originally supplied  CoC is surrendered on 1st registration ?

[/quote]

I'm not sure what the time-line was (SD will know) but the UK V5 (log book) now shows a Vehicle Type Approval Number (Line 'L' from memory). This is used to pull up details of conformity from the central database. As I mentioned earlier, that number has been known to work in france but, not on every occasion.

A reasonable guess, based on the experience of others, is that if it doesn't have the letter 'E' in it, it will not produce the information from the french database.

.

[Iceni]

Bob T

That sounds eminently sensible on the part of the UK CAA. Tis a shame that the same idea is not employed to screw funds from drivers of all the foreign registered vehicles that wear out UK roads.

John

[Keni]

Bugsy - he V5C does have a section for Type Approval that begins with an 'e', so we might try going along that route and see what happens. Thanks to everyone for the info though.

[Keni]

Just to say we had a reply & conversation today from Peugeot - they started charging apparently about a year or so ago, before that it was free.

Asked why they do not provide a C of C automatically, they said they do but you must pay for it. I asked why a french made car imported into the uk and then being re-imported back to France needed a c of c - they said ask the French Licensing authorities. I asked does this mean they know that Peugeots made for other European markets might not be made to the same high standard as those for the French market? SILENCE - then, I' sure that's not the case. So, I asked, why then not provide the C of C free - ours was not in the Service Booklet as we were led to believe it should be. They said it is never provided unless asked for - all Peugeots have them but you have to ask for them and they will then charge you £100 for the photocopied piece of paper. Any one from Top Gear here??? This is just a Rip off!

[PaulT]

[quote user="Chris"]Just to say we had a reply & conversation today from Peugeot - they started charging apparently about a year or so ago, before that it was free. Asked why they do not provide a C of C automatically, they said they do but you must pay for it. I asked why a french made car imported into the uk and then being re-imported back to France needed a c of c - they said ask the French Licensing authorities. I asked does this mean they know that Peugeots made for other European markets might not be made to the same high standard as those for the French market? SILENCE - then, I' sure that's not the case. So, I asked, why then not provide the C of C free - ours was not in the Service Booklet as we were led to believe it should be. They said it is never provided unless asked for - all Peugeots have them but you have to ask for them and they will then charge you £100 for the photocopied piece of paper. Any one from Top Gear here??? This is just a Rip off![/quote]

Perhaps this illustrates that if you are buying a car in the UK and there is the slightest possibility that you might move to France (or another EU country) then perhaps, once the haggling about cost is sorted that you then say 'we can conclude this deal provided you provide a CoC for the car'.

Paul

[Chancer]

Its not just the manufacturers that are making ther punters bend over and take it, €67 for the DRIRE to print off one page?

And how do they find which one? In most cases they use the number in the V5, now a country whose aim was to reduce beaurocracy would simply have the DRIRE database accessible by the prefecture department responsible for matriculation.

Not likely to happen anytime soon here.

[Keni]

Looks like another country trying to stuff the motorist then?

[Iceni]

I have recently imported a 2 yr old Fiat with the intention (or should that be hope) of re-registering it here in France.

Went to Prefecture in Cahors yesterday, armed with V5C(W), invoice etc to request a copy of the list of documents that would be needed.

They are

1. foreign logbook

2. Original C of C European or "attestation d'identification" issued by manufacturer

3. Quittus TVA (my identity may only be confirmed by an EDF bill, French driving licence or Certificat de Residence signed my M. le Maire are not adequate)

4. Customs cert if outside CEE

5. CT if vehicle more than 4 years

6. Plus of course application form

Note there was no mention of right dipping headlights

Despite having a Type Approval number starting with an E this meant absolutely nothing, they would not even look.

Then went to DRIRE (now DREAL) where Madame was sympathetic but insisted that I needed a Fiat issued C of C and helpfully gave me a copy of a spreadsheet listing a host of manufacturers from A - F inclusive with addresses and phone numbers. Also gave me directions to nearby Centre des Impots where the absence of an EDF bill rendered me unidentifiable.

Next step, online searching for Fiat and C of C.

Tracked down online form for Fiat France, Homolgomations Dept, though this defintely applies to Dodge, Chrysler and Jeep at Fiat France though no mention of Fiat. Cost €140.

Huh, contacted Fiat UK via online chat where Natalie pointed me to Fiat in Slough. Written request with copy of registration doc promises a free C of C.

I am not sure whether this relevant or even interesting to any of you but it is my story so far.

Off to Figeac Centre des Impots tomorrow with trusty EDF bill.

France - doncha just love it?

John

[AnOther]

Cahors of course being the self same Prefecture which, in the last few month's, have happily registered 2 UK imports for a friend, one a 4 year old cabriolet and the other a 70's sports car, both with nothing more than quitus's (quitii ?), CT's and V5C's, and not a C of C in sight !

Re the lights, there is the anomaly because the C of C from Fiat UK will be a full one, not partial as it likely would have been if acquired from Fiat France, hence nobody will question them until CT time in another 2 years.

You really should have known about the EDF bill though John, it is the defining document for just about anything requiring proof of address [;-)]

[Iceni]

My faith in the unpredictability of French fonctionnaires is restored.

Another day, another Centre des Impots (this time Figeac), another sex (man this time).

Upon being asked where I live I confirmed "here in France" and began to produce my EDF bill. Yer man may have been able to see the EDF logo but could not possibly have read the name and address thereon. After a few minutes I had my Quittus in my hot little hand.

Now just waiting for FiatUK to perform and I will be off to brave the Prefecture at Cahors once again.

John

[Iceni]

Today received an e-mail from Fiat UK advising that my C of C is on it's way. The scanned copy attached to the e-mail seems to be in Italian (not surprising really). What joy may I expect when presenting the original in Cahors?

TIA

John

[Sunday Driver]

All EU certificates of conformity are in a standard format regardless of language.  The data required by the prefecture is set out in the same position on every certificate so they'll have no trouble reading it.

 

[AnOther]

From personal experience the Cahors prefecture does seem to be relatively switched on however we've had tales here and eleswhere of people being turned away from theirs with a demand for a translation [blink]

If you do make it past the sentry into the inner sanctum say hello to the cashier who is my neighbour. Her name is Beatrice and she speaks a little English.

Friends in high places [:D][:D][:D]

Bonne chance.

 

[Will]

The Ille et Vilaine/Bretagne web site suggests that Rennes, at least, requires some of the documentation to be in French:

"A savoir

: il peut être en langue étrangère. Dans ce cas, il

doit être présenté accompagné d'une traduction effectuée par un

traducteur agréé (se rapprocher du bureau des experts de la Cour

d'appel)."

[Iceni]

The CofC arrived today (posted in Slough on Thursday so well done Royal Mail and La Poste) with a covering letter reminding me that it was built to drive on the left so proof of headlight changes may be necessary. To CMA I will probably have LHD headlights fitted before daring to re-enter the Prefecture.

The list of necessary docs provided by the Prefecture does not stipulate that they must be in French - but why should that make a difference?

John

[Iceni]

I have my new (temporary) carte grise. The Italian CofC did not cause any problems nor the fact that I did not provide any evidence that the lights dress to the right. They do but no-one asked so I did not volunteer.

On reflection (geddit?) most of the stress has been caused by the ****** Welsh.

TTFN

john

[Dinks]

Well, I can comfortably say that I am now banging my head against a brick wall. The prefecture wouldn't even look at the Type Approval Number on the V5 let alone tap the number into a computer. No manufacturer's c of c = no carte grise, madame. Now, I have successfully obtained a manufacturer's c of c for a Vauxhall and a Toyota over the past 2 years, but Mercedes are playing their own game. Despite sending them a copy of the van's cert de contrôle téchnique, they are insisting on an attestation from a Mercedes Benz garage/dealer to confirm that both the headlights and the speedometer conform to French road standards. I mean, FFS! We HAD to get the headlights changed for it to pass its CT and ALL vehicles have both kph and mph on the speedo do they not? Gah!

[Dinks]

And it gets worse - for all those who reckon you can just 'turn up at your local DRIRE (now DREAL)' to get your hands on a cert of conformity, think again. My contact at DREAL Midi-Pyrenees has categorically told me in an email that you HAVE to get the C of C from the vehicle manufacturer. DRIRE/DREAL or whatever acronym you choose, do not issue them. Full stop. Great.

[Chancer]

That is correct, they provide (sell)  "attestations de conformité" for vehicles that are already on their database.

S'il sagit dune voiture d'occasion :
Définition du véhicule d'occasion : un véhicule d'occasion est un véhicule qui a plus de 6 mois ou ayant plus de 6000 km au compteur, à la date de la livraison :

1. Un justificatif de domicile et une pièce d’identité (ou une copie en cas de demande par correspondance), le justificatif de domicile doit dater de moins de 3 mois. (Il peut s’agir d’une quittance de loyer, d’une facture EDF ou de téléphone),

2. Le formulaire rempli, daté et signé de « Demande de certificat d’immatriculation d’un véhicule » Cerfa n°13750*01

3. un certificat d'immatriculation d'origine (barré et portant mention «vendu le» datée et signée par l'ancien propriétaire),

4. Le certificat de cession (joint au formulaire de demande d'immatriculation) établi par l'ancien propriétaire, au nom du demandeur de la carte grise,

5. Le certificat de conformité européen ou attestation d'identification (pour les véhicules conformes à un type national ou communautaire), délivré soit par un constructeur ou son représentant en France, soit par la DRIRE, ou un procès-verbal de réception à titre isolé délivré par la DRIRE,

6. Bien que l'achat d'un véhicule d’occasion auprès d'un particuliers d'un autre Etat membre de l'UE, ne soit pas soumis à la TVA en France, un certificat fiscal d'exonération (certificat n°1993 VT), à retirer auprès de la recette principale des impôts du domicile de l'acheteur, reste exigé, notamment pour établir la carte grise. Pour obtenir ce certificat (fourni par le service des impots), il faut se présenter au guichet concerné muni de toutes les pièces nécessaires (facture d'achat, ancienne carte grise du véhicule, carte d'identité, justificatif de domicile,...)

7. une attestation de passage dans un centre de contrôle technique datant de moins de 6 mois et effectué par le vendeur, pour les véhicules de plus de 4 ans,

8. Le paiement en chèque ou en espèces de la valeur de la taxe (taxe qui varie suivant les département).