hoping to deal in property renervations.

[wainhomes]

any advice welcome. moving to south charente early next year. intend to renovate old houses and sell on as for a living. realise only small margins after fees and taxes and only profit really from buying at right price,(seems more viable than b&b, or gites providing can manage without mortgage or loans etc?

[Val_2]

Not that viable a business in France compared to UK - too many costs involved,bueaucracy and not just the buying and selling fees, but you would have to set up in a registered business with all the charges that incurrs including very hefty building and public liability insurances and taking on employees would incurr more costs as well as the trades you cannot or not allowed to do yourself. House sales in many areas are stagnant currently as local people have very limited incomes and getting mortgages etc here is nothing like as easy as UK practices. Renovation costs are very expensive in France and I know from being inthe business and very often you can easily underestimate the true finished costings due to unforseen problems occurring. Do your homework very well and be aware of the financial implications regarding CGT etc even if you are tax resident here. French builders find it more lucrative to buy land and build cheap,modern affordable housing, quite often to rent rather than buy.

[Mozman]

 

You know, I don't often contribute here any more because I feel there is too much negativity at times and rather too much putting the damper on peoples hopes and dreams. Yes it is important to have your eyes open...but its also important to be open-minded as well.

So there.:lol

To the original poster: I'm sure you know very well that EVERY business has costs and drawbacks and paperwork to get straight. Thats part and parcel of it. And of course its important to get to grips with it. But it mustn't be allowed to put you off! I think you have a sound idea as long, as you say, you find the property at the right prices. We have done quite nicely ourselves. It just requires research.

I think it is a better bet at the moment than property in England. (Which seems teetering on the edge of a crash.) I believe the new administration in France is keen to boost the property market and is putting efforts into legislation to do just that. Of course it all dpends on what you want (and need) to earn. If you have no large financial outgoings in the form of mortgage/loan then frankly you don't need to make a fortune to live very well. The bottom line is we couldn't afford to do this in England....because of the initial outlay, the cost of a big mortgage etc etc. We'd have to make many many times as much profit.

I know people who have made a VERY good living out of what you propose. Maybe they don't want the comptition!:lol I don't agree that renovation costs are necessarily higher in France. I think you get what you pay for....and that building quality os generally higher. There are plenty of opportunities to make a living....I have noticed that, over the last few years, the French have begun to rediscover the joys of older renovated property. Also, there isalways  room for tasteful renovations done to a high standard. So many I've seen done (by the french) are tacky and un-sympathetic. Plenty of french sellers leave money on the table by badly presenting their country property. (It reminds me very much of sixties britain when people 'modernized' cottages with dreadful results.) These houses end up ONLY appealing to rural french people with limited incomes. What you need to attract are foriegn buyers or wealthy french middle-classes.

There are good opportunities also ith improved transport links. We did very well on a house because a motorway was built in the area which opened up the market. Keep your ear to the ground and identify areas where, for example, an airport is being up-graded from domestic to international flights.

[wainhomes]

thanks mozman,   i agree there are no margins left in the english market and borrowing to fund it is nolonger feasible.  i understand that social security payments can now be reduced down to a percentage of your profits in the first two years if you reg. as self employed. i have developed properties in england but it does not require any qualifications, would a letter of recommendation from a developer i have worked for a number of years suffice to reg. in france?

 wainhomes.

[Framboise]

Following on from what Mozman said about "tacky French renovations....", our old Postie said that in his wide experience of seeing all manner of houses within his round, that "The English do French better than we French do".    

It appears that the French don't want the Olde Worlde thing that we Brits like, preferring nice new builds instead, so we Brits are obviously doing France a great service in preserving their heritage for them!!   [:D]

We might just do what you plan to do Wainhomes.  Good luck to you!!!

 

[Blanche Neige]

"..................So many I've seen done (by the french) are tacky and un-sympathetic."

 

Some British ones are not good either and can fall into the "tacky and un-sympathetic" category.

 

"Plenty of french sellers leave money on the table by badly presenting their country property."

 

It never fails to amaze me that often when the French put their houses up for sale they happily let the agents take and publish photos without considering the need to present the house in a clean and tidy state.

[Gastines]

I wish they'd return to the old system where if you did the work yourself ,you were allowed three times the cost of materials against any tax due. This of course doesn't matter if it's your main residence and you are a French tax payer,no CGT anyway. The first 2 houses we renovated,I brought most of the materials from UK as they were cheaper from my trade suppliers than here but now , with all the bigger suppliers here, the prices on most items are actually cheaper and just down the road. As long as the receipts were in your name, you could get a French surveyor to check the work and costings, for about £2000. and he would submit his report to the Paris Tax office,applied to second homes. I was warned by my accountant that if the profit was returned to UK you would be taxed on it anyway.

 Perhaps we shall see some changes in this direction to make use of the many older buildings falling into disrepair.

Mind you the first house we bought in Brittany, a 3 story building /annex/courtyard and field. New windows and water and electricity connected cost £14000. A bit different now!!.