working for a UK employer whilst living in France

[caro13]

I have recently asked my employer if I can continue to work for them whilst living in France, they are almost agreeing to my request but they have to get further advice from the company solicitor. is there anybody out there who works for a UK employer but lives permanently in France. I could really use the advice/information of someone who is already doing it... thanks

[BJSLIV]

Who is going to pick up the bill for the social contributions that will be required?

If your employer values you highly he may be prepared to add bear the additional costs (possibly 20  or 30% of your salary)

If you have to bear the cost you will find yourself with significantly lower take home pay at the  end of each month.  On the other hand you may consider this a price worth paying!

[Albert the InfoGipsy]

As far as I know there are three ways to tackle this, within the French rules:

A) Your employer sets you up as a 'branch office' which requires a lot of form filling and makes them liable for your French social charges (cotisations). These are much higher than UK rates -- typically about 40-50% of salary, if I remember rightly.

B) Register you as an employee using the method in this guide (in English):

http://www.urssaf.fr/images/ref_guide_ESEF_UK.pdf

C) Set yourself up as a freelance and invoice your (ex-) employer for your work. This could probably be done as an auto-entrepreneur, which is the simplest way to set up a business in France. However, there might be questions if they are your only client. It's cheaper in cotisations but you lose any employment rights for stuff like a company pension.

[oscar]

When we first moved to France I went down the (A) route and it was a nightmare.  There were other things to pay for apart from employee cotisations, which I didn't feel able to ask my employer to pay for as it had been my choice to come to France.  In the first six months of being here I earnt £11,000 but I paid out over £7,000!  I had looked into (c) before AE existed but as self-employed, but as albert says, it was difficult only having one employer.  Don't know about the (b) option, this seems pretty new and after my time of working for a UK company whilst living in France.

[Will]

Sometimes you can operate a 'branch office' as a self-employed person; it depends on your local CFE. That has the dubious advantage of paying self-employed cotisations, but as long as you do not go down the micro route you can offset your actual costs to keep taxable income reasonably low. It's considerably better value than the true subsidiary option, where employee + employer contributions amount to some 60% of actual salary. You will almost certainly need an accountant, though.

There is a fourth option, which is to use a portage company. However that can prove as expensive as, and sometimes even more than, setting yourself up as a subsidiary. The main advantage is that it can cut out a lot of the bureaucracy.

This is one portage company, with a site in English: http://www.freelanceinfrance.com/ (note that I have no experience of this company, or this regime, having operated under option C myself).

[eurosnugs]

Hi,

I was in the same situation as yourself and the easy option was to use a portage company.  I work with a company in Limoges and every month they invoice my old employer for the work I carry out for them.  Compared to my  UK salary I was prepared to take a 25% pay cut when I came to France, but it was well worth it.

The portage company takes his cut (up to 10%), pays all the company and social taxes and what is left over is my monthly salary.  I take home about 50% of the oroginal invoiced amount.  Whilst 10% sounds like a lot, I prefer not to waste time filling in endless forms but spend the time working, pay the fee and not spend time worrying about unforseen bill requests that seem to turn up in peoples post for cotisations that they aren't prepared for.

[RicandJo]

You don't say if your work itself will be carried out in France or if you will be 'commuting' back to the uk for work and spend your time off in France.

 

 

[Daft Doctor]

Hi, if you are living in france as an 'inactif' but have substantial income from commercial and residential property letting in the UK, my understanding is that the income will be taxed in France (as a french resident).  Does anyone know however if such an income (say £25k a year for arguement's sake) or one's tax status can be packaged in such a way in France to attract cotisations and the benefits of access to the French health care system?  Or, is it just a case of paying only the tax in France?  If the latter, what happens to the NI contributions you would normally pay in the UK on such income.  Do they just cease or do you continue to have any liability to HMRC in the UK?  Could there be any aspect of the new autoentrepreneur scheme that might be applicable to landlords with this level of income?  Many thanks for any insight.  

[AnOther]

Some thoughts not to be taken as gospel.

To enter the French health system normally you need to either be working here or be covered by an E form. I suppose you could establish a French company and rent your properties through that but apart from the unthinkably horrendous complications of doing such a thing it would likely cost you far more than paying for private health care.

A note of caution, with a portfolio of properties you need to be careful about falling into French wealth tax too.

I don't think auto-entrepreneur will help you either as you are not carrying out any work or providing services in France.

If you are a French resident inactif then why would you be paying UK NI ?

This would only be the case if you were employed in some sense in UK, say as a self employed person or an employee of your own company etc. not simply because you earn income from property rental.

[Maricopa]

[quote user="Daft Doctor"]Hi, if you are living in france as an 'inactif' but have substantial income from commercial and residential property letting in the UK, my understanding is that the income will be taxed in France (as a french resident).   [/quote]

If you live in France but have property income from the UK, it is (correctly) taxed in the UK, and only reported for Revenue Fiscal de Reference purposes in France.  It is only taxed at the relevant rate, no NI is paid (ie if the income fell in the 20% bracket, then only that rate of tax would apply after your allowance).

[Daft Doctor]

Hi, and thanks for the observations.  I thought that your place of residence determined where you paid your tax, wherever you earned the dough, but I may be wrong about that.  I think the truth for me would be to get my max 2 years cover through an E106, then pay for private health cover (unless I got some form of employment in France).  Then it is a case of taking the hit, being a very good citizen and once 5 years of residency are completed to the french authories' satisfaction, I should be able to access the french health system?  Probably cheaper overall than any other option.  

[Maricopa]

[quote user="Daft Doctor"]  I thought that your place of residence determined where you paid your tax, wherever you earned the dough, but I may be wrong about that.   [/quote]

See the note about UK rental income in the tax FAQs.

[Anton]

Hi, I have been doing exactly this for five years. It's complicated but worth doing as it gets you into the French system. You need a friendly employer and in the end I have been my employer's French payment department. If you are doing it the employee route you need to contact URSSAF in Strasbourg who are the office dealing with overseas companies. But your employer will also need to register with Pole Emploi (to cover unemployment benefits) and Taibout (to cover pension). You will then need to liaise with these three departments and pay cotisations every 3 months. It is a lot more expensive for your employer than the UK NI equivalent and a lot more bureaucratic.

The freelance route might work via the autoentrepreneur scheme but when I asked about it (before the autoentrepreneur scheme existed) for a small extra job they sent me a questionnaire and then told me that I wouldn't be freelance but in fact would be an employee - and all for £500 of work.

Good luck. Happy to give more advice if needed.