Maconnerie wants 2.500E for demolition pour ouverture

[loopylurcher]

We have a small old house and have waited patiently for over a year for the French maconnerie to commence work.  He has done a good job of renewing the roof and has also carried out some fairly heavy interior works satisfactorily.  We have experienced extreme difficulty getting a French builder such is the demand in our area (Montmorillon Vienne) and, we know we have paid more than the going rate but were desperate. Now  "phase 11" and his devis has just arrived. He is asking 2.500E for demolition for an aperture for standard size French Doors with the necessary lintols and making good. The price does not obviously include the actual French doors. Adimttedly the wall is stone but is not very thick. Does anyone with past experience think this is a little steep or should we just bite the bullet and get this job done? Any advice much appreciated.  LOOPYLURCHER

[Patf]

We paid about 1000 euro for a similar door fitting. A single door and the house wall is breeze block.He had to come back several times, waiting for the cement to dry etc. Pat.

[Piprob]

Loopy, it may seem a bit steep, but think what's involved. For example:

1. You can't grind out the wall opening to fit the lintel. Every stone you remove loosens several above. You need to make a number of holes right through, insert bars and prop from both sides to secure the weight of wall above before you can insert the lintel. It will take quite some time to do this.

2. The lintel must be set in place, but as it will be of a regular shape and the stones above will not, the space between them will need to be carefully packed-out before cementing.

3. The stone work below the lintel will require removing carefully, otherwise the opening will quickly spread beyong the span of the lintel. Then the stones will need to be carefully secured.

4. The door frame fixing will not be easily fastened to stonework, and it will need to be carefully packed-out, just like the lintel.

5. Some care will be required to creating the threshold, and this work may have damp-proofing considerations.

Hope it all goes well.

 

[BJSLIV]

Without seeing the job its hard to comment. But if 1000 euros is the going rate for a single door in breeze blocks, then 2500 euros in an old stone wall, may not be too far out.

[Ianhaycox]

We recently paid 6000 for two doors to be put in an old stone house with thick walls. As noted before the stones have to be removed carefully, the opening propped, a new lintel cast in position and then made good.

See http://radio.weblogs.com/0136203/2004/11/09.html#a216 and http://radio.weblogs.com/0136203/2004/11/05.html#a212

2,500 sounds OK to me.

[Jerac]

I agree that 2,500 seems reasonable. We had similar work done last year for a comparable price.  I too winced when I saw the devis, and queried the cost with the builder.  He pointed out that part of what you are paying for is (as long as he is registered and insured) the transfer of risk to the builder should the whole wall end up as a pile of rubble. I watched the work being done and it was a worrying process. Not only were there three vertical temporary supports, but also a number across the opening. One large stone could not be moved and had to be cut.  The job was finished with brick pillars at either side and three large pieces of oak as a lintel. 

[Lyndap]

I recently received a Devis from our local builder to knock out a very thick old stone wall, put in a lintel and fit a  window. (from memory its about 1800 x 1200) Prix 830.00 plus tva 19.6% 162.68 Total 992.68 euros.   He is also very busy and has taken 10 months to price the job! Hope this helps as a rough guide. Regards Lynda

[loopylurcher]

Very many thanks to everyone for their comments. The general consensus is that it is more or less the going rate and I will accept the devis - I think we did not fully appreciate the work involved as you pointed out. (if you say it quick it doesn't sound much does it!)  And, Ian your website is an education. I hope it warms up for you in the coming weeks. All that mud..........   Only the Brits would do it. 

[Val_2]

What about the removal of the waste rubble from the site? Is this included if you are not going to re-use it.It could be part of your devis. We always give a quote of at least 600€+ for benne hire when removing waste as it is very expensive to do so and for a man with just a van, more time consuming also. The price quoted does not sound expensive as there is a great deal of careful preparation and work to be done and time consuming too. Remember France is not cheap for labour costs because of the social charges which are continuously going up and up all the time.

[Fritz]

“He is asking 2.500E for demolition for an aperture for standard size French Doors with the necessary lintols and making good.”

 

It is, of course, outrageous. Material costs are negligible. But always a risk when knocking out walls. Whilst some parts may appear to be stone others end up as clay and rubble but all in all it’s a job well within average diyer. Hire or buy a decent percussion chisel and take it slowly.

Around here (SW) masons get their boys to do such jobs. They get paid minimum €250 for a 5 day, 35 hour week. Put in the employers contribution, say another €350 pw and that comes to €600. So say, net costs €400 for the three days required to do the hole plus materials €400 max and that’s €800. Profit? €400 if you’re being greedy, so €1.200 in all.

But, if he doesn’t want a deposit, turns up on time, does a good job, cleans up, the windows fit and it takes him 12 months to send his bill, then it’s an OK deal. Probably. You pays yer money and takes the risk.