Costs

[Blackadder<IMG src="http:forums.livingfrance.comimagesline.gif"><BR>Blackadder<BR>Keighley and Creuse]

I know its pie in the sky but here goes anyway, can any of you give figures you have recently paid for the following works. We are getting estimates and want to know whether we'll need to remain standing/sit down or seek psychiatric help  when we open the estimate letter.

Concrete a floor 14m x 9m

Install a 4.5m fosse

build approx 60 linear metres of 2.5m concrete block wall

install electricals for a 4 bed barn

install log boiler and underfloor heating to barn

Ball park figures are all i have and i need a little more to get the finance sorted out. The old chicken and egg, we need to know the cost to arrange the finance but need to know its within reach.

Anglais artisans is  agreat source by the way

[Andjackie]

Hello,here is a rough guide to some of the costs that I or my brother have been quoted or paid for.Concrete floors total area 40x18 feet, dug out/hardcore/plastic membrane/insulation then concreted £2700 fosse septique 5000 litre £3500 electrics to four bed house (one bathroom) £7000 this is from november last year to present day.Still cannot make up my mind if they are a fair price but a bit late now ! I did seek other quotes but that is another story ! ps hope you are still standing !

Regards Andrew & Jackie

[Blackadder<IMG src="http:forums.livingfrance.comimagesline.gif"><BR>Blackadder<BR>Keighley and Creuse]

Thanks for that. I have used the 'artisan-anglais' site and e-mailed a couple of builders who i have sent plans and photos to. I fly out next week for one day to go through exactly what i want. I figure £150 spent now may save £5000 in the future on misinterpretation.

If you have not used that particular site, its worth looking at. Links Fench based tradesmen who speak English and are registered!

I worked on similar figures for the fosse, floor and electrics but then added on for all the other stuff, if I'm a thousand out on them all it could add up to alot on money, either extra or less.

[Bobc]

Please do some more research and do not part with any money to any of the "companies" on the Artisan-Anglais website.

It is part of Archant and there are no checks as to the legality of companies advertising there. Archant are happy to accept advertising from any company regardless of their status.

Far better to go to your local Mairie and ask for the names of local registered French artisans who can do the work for you and will provide you with a guarantee.

Good luck,

Bob Clarke
http://perso.wanadoo.fr.grindoux

[Weedon]

Flying out for a day to meet up with builders to discuss what you want them to do and then  presumably  let them carry on without you being there and trust them to do as you think you have agreed.

Call me a cynic but I see tears ahead.

When all is said and done there is nothing like using local established companies rather than here today and gone tomorrow fly by nights.  Take some time to discuss what you want them to do, ask their advice because they have probably done similar work loads of times with other people, and if you don't know them, be there when they do the work or at least get somebody you trust to pop in to check the work is being carried out as requested.

I have seen another posting which said he wanted to pay the going rate and not over the odds.  I don't think its terribly helpful to engage a builder if you have a preconceived notion that he will rip you off.  Some will, but TV programmes make it seem like they are all at it.

Its my humble opinion that you need to get a rapport going with a decent builder, one that you are completely happy with and maybe you have spoken with previous clients, if you have to pay a little more to get the right people then that's life.  Its only cheap for a reason.

weedon

[Blackadder<IMG src="http:forums.livingfrance.comimagesline.gif"><BR>Blackadder<BR>Keighley and Creuse]

If i was blind to it all and burying my head in the sand, then yes, doing it all over the net/phone and expecting a 100% correct end product would be naive.

I am, however, searching the web, using forums such as these, seeing other work the builders have done.....I am flying out to meet them in order to get an accurate estimate and to iron out any differances between us in what is and what is not included in an estimate.

I have visited the Mairie a number of times although we are only in France a  few times a year and the time is precious so we spend most of it working.

I will get 3 or maybe 4 estimates (100 euros apiece) and will then use evrything else i have learned about the respective builders before i make a final choice. It will not be solely on price.

I wanted an idea of costs, not being knocked for the way i am going about it, although i do thank all posters for their time and effort and i will bear it all in mind.

[Blackadder<IMG src="http:forums.livingfrance.comimagesline.gif"><BR>Blackadder<BR>Keighley and Creuse]

Bobc, i presume i'd be ok parting with money to a builder on the artisan anglais site if they were already known to the mairie?

I know one chap on the site who lives in Gers, He is a life long friend of a neighbour of mine. He has been a builder all his life, is trustworthy and not a fly by night by any stretch of the imagination. I'll take it on board about the site, but a sweeping 'don't use 'em' statement is quite unfair on some of the artisans on the site.

[Battypuss]

You should not be charged for a 'devis', ie an estimate of costs. If you are paying 100€ a throw for one, they saw you coming. I don't mean to be negative, nor to insinuate that you are naive, but this is one of the oldest tricks in the book.

Set up appointments with local artisans, by phone if necessary, get them all assembled in one place at one time, hand out sheets of paper stating EXACTLY what you want and when...then compare them. Do you perhaps have another keyholder who could let them in to have a look? Otherwise, take two days, what you save in spurious devis will cover a days loss of salary.

 

[Blackadder<IMG src="http:forums.livingfrance.comimagesline.gif"><BR>Blackadder<BR>Keighley and Creuse]

Thanks for that, i did think it actually a fairly sensible thing to do for a builder who may spend 3 or 4 hours on a site visit/costing to charge a nominal fee. I will discuss with them.

[Dick Smith]

I've never paid for a devis - I'd be a bit worried if I was asked to. The cost of providing estimates should be factored in to general overheads.

[Andjackie]

Hello again Blackadder,do tend to agree with you,if you have property around area 22 I am quite happy to recommend the French builder that I used,he also speaks english.I gave him a deposit to start on each project and as in the case of the fosse i knew it was going to be inspected at each stage by the french water board official (i am sure you all know what i mean!)do not know his official title,and paid up when the work was finished and I was happy with it needless to say the builder/artisan was also understanding and happy with arrangement as he has a local reputation to keep.

Regards Andrew & Jackie

[Will]

[quote]Please do some more research and do not part with any money to any of the "companies" on the Artisan-Anglais website. It is part of Archant and there are no checks as to the legality of companies adv...[/quote]

Bob - are you sure what you say is correct?

I do have some personal reservations about Artisan Anglais, but it only accepts entries from those who can state that they are working legally in France. I have no knowledge about any connection with Archant, which is the company that publishes Living France and its two sister magazines. I have asked Archant for confirmation, but as far as I am aware the only link is that Artisan Anglais pays for regular advertisements in Archant titles Living France and French Property News. It also advertises in French News and on the 1st for French Property web site.

The fact that some companies advertising in the press and on web sites may not be legal to operate in France has come up here before. It is not illegal to publish advertising from unregistered companies, certainly not in a magazine published outside France. Although Archant or any other reputable publisher will not accept advertising from a known illegal or rogue trader, what is and is not legal in France is a very complicated subject. Even the companies on Artisan Anglais cannot agree. Under some circumstances a UK or other European company can trade legally in France, but this of course is not always the case. Equally so, the existence of a Siret number, often cited as a guarantee of a legal French business, is no assurance. The Siret may be granted to a different business run by the same person - e.g. the classic case of a landscape gardener taking on roofing work. Even if the registration and the service offered ties up there is no guarantee that the registered tradesman is properly insured or fully qualified (I know of several French business where this is the case). Business registration can also be terminated, either voluntarily or otherwise.

So bearing in mind the above I do not see how a publisher can be expected to check up on every advertisement accepted in every magazine, other than seeking an assurance from the advertiser that he is operating legally. And tradesmen have been known to tell the odd porkie now and again. As we always say, it is up to the client to be satisfied with the legal status of any business or individual he or she employs. Certainly your suggestion about enquiring at the mairie is a good one, though to be 100% certain you will still need to double-check any recommendations.

[Russethouse]

Bob, What makes you think Artisan Anglais is Archant owned ?

I notice one of the first things they say is that you do have to be legally registered to advertise on the site too. Perhaps you have experience that is different to this ?

[Boris520]

I am a registered artisan in the creuse & have never heard of anyone here charging for devis. Sure, they can take up a lot of time to prepare, both on site & at home, but they are a fact of life, & worth the effort if you get the work. If some are coming from French artisans, you could be in for a wait, so be patient.

It would be worth you asking at the chambre de metiers in Gueret, as all artisans are registered with them, plus they can tell you what they are registered to do. ( recently heard of someone registered as "jardinage" , who was doing new roofs, very naughty, & no 10 yr guarantee, so just having a siret doesn't mean everything is ok ). To be sure ask to see their registration card, which should be carried at all times, & a copy of their 10 year insurance, which will state which works are covered.

hope this helps, good luck,

Richard

[Bobc]

"Bob - are you sure what you say is correct?"

Will,

Thanks for your diplomatic reply.

No - I was completely incorrect - I used the link to Artisan-Anglais and assumed that they were part of French Property News.

This is obviously not the case and the advertisers on the site would all seem to be properly registered.

I would endorse the other comments on this thread regarding payments for devis. These should always be done without charge.

Regards,

Bob Clarke
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/grindoux

[Limousin Expat]

Artisan Anglais is absolutely nothing to do with Archant, whatever gave you that idea Bob? It's part of WizzWoo who offer webhosting and design. They are trying really hard to get it right for people by offering the means to check for yourself whether artisans are legal. As they only charge 15 Euros a year for a brilliantly designed webpage on the site, please don't give them such a hard time! I have used them over and over and it's up to me to check the artisans out.