Removal of shutters with lead paint

[Brian j]

We have old metal shutters with lead paint. I am looking to either have them repainted or replaced with wooden ones. Given the fact there is lead on them I assume it will not be so easy. What should we do.?

[Babnik]

Lead Paint on shutters is not like asbestos, and the only danger (this is what I have been told..so please check beforehand!) is kids licking the paint. You can handle the paint no problem, and I guess if you need to sand them, the usual precautions when sanding should be sufficient.

Does anybody know otherwise?

[Brian j]

Would this be the same information that the Dept de emploi sent me ? I have received two letters to my address in Ireland. Have not got them translated yet. Is there an inspection they have to carry out or could we work away as long as we are aware of the problems ??

[Ron Avery]

[quote]Lead Paint on shutters is not like asbestos, and the only danger (this is what I have been told..so please check beforehand!) is kids licking the paint. You can handle the paint no problem, and I gues...[/quote]

No Babnik, advice is spot on, Brian just don't let the kids lick the shutters, use a dust mask and you'll be absolutely fine

[Mpprh]

Hi

In theory you should dispose of the lead paint dust at the authorised disposal centre.

I had 20 kg, so took it seriously. Partly because I'd had a recorded delivery letter from the prefecture telling me I must sort out the lead paint AND dispose of it in the authorised disposal centre.

My local dechetterie said " nah, put it in tout venant" ! The prefecture in Gard said that no disposal facilities had yet been provided.

Eventually I made an appointment to deposit the dust in a specialist dechetterie in Herault.

Peter

 

[Bobc]

"Lead Paint on shutters is not like asbestos, and the only danger (this is what I have been told..so please check beforehand!) is kids licking the paint. You can handle the paint no problem, and I guess if you need to sand them, the usual precautions when sanding should be sufficient. "

"No Babnik, advice is spot on, Brian just don't let the kids lick the shutters, use a dust mask and you'll be absolutely fine"

As so often on this forum, completely uninformed, and in this case potentially dangerous postings.

"and I guess if you need to sand them, the usual precautions when sanding should be sufficient."

What on earth do you base this statement on?

Safe removal of lead based paint is not a DIY project.

http://www.defra.gov.uk/environment/chemicals/lead/advice3.htm

Bob Clarke
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/grindoux

[Ron Avery]

"As so often on this forum, completely uninformed, and in this case potentially dangerous postings. Says Bob the Builder based on a DEFRA leaflet!!  Not the HSE.... DEFRA

DEFRA who are not responsible for safety in the UK, just the environment, suggest  "Immediately on removal, place all paint residues and debris in a plastic container, e.g. a plastic bag, and seal securely for final disposal with normal household waste" What Used Paint stripper will burn through a plastic bag in no time, its an ACID

What on earth do you base this statement on?

What about 20 years doing risk assessments for hazardous substances?.  These are metal shutters out in the open for christ's sake not the side of the Queen Mary.  You are right perhaps the suggestions "to take the usual precautions when sanding should be sufficient" was a bit vague but I think we assume a degree of common sense on people doing D-I-Y so we should have said "If the normal precautions for paint stripping are followed, cleared area, dust masks, dust collection bag on sander,etc etc the risks to the user are as low as reasonably practicable.  Or of course follow DEFRA and burn your hands, eyes and clothing using paint stripper.

Perhaps the sensible answer to the original question should have been replace them with wooden shutter and save yourself all the trouble

[andyh4]

"Used Paint stripper will burn through a plastic bag in no time, "

No it won't

"its an ACID"

no it's not: it's caustic alkali (exactly the opposite) - sorry Ron.

 

A polyethylene rubbish sack should not be burnt through by methylene chloride, methanol or caustic soda - the 3 key ingredients of solvent based strippers.  However if you have used a plastic tray to hold the fluid while doing the stripping then it may well have dissolved in no time - especially polystyrene trays - so this may have coloured your view.  Not all plastics are the same.

 

Beyond that I do agree Ron, the previous posting was OTT and to suggest that this cannot be a DIY job and then place a link to the environmental agency advice clearly aimed at DIYers seems a bit strange in the extreme.

 

I know that in the US they insist on using professional lead removal companies, but then they also insist on:

calling a Big Mac food

calling trousers, pants

calling pants, trousers

calling GWB a president

so perhaps not the best example to follow.

 

[Brian j]

Many thanks for all the feedback .. I am thinking replacing is starting to be the right option.This however raises another question..... If I remove them where can I bring them ??? We live in Juillac (19). Its a holiday home and have very limited French .

Thanks

B

 

[Alan Zoff]

If you ever stand for office, Andy, you can count on my vote.

[Ron Avery]

Andy

 You are right it is a caustic based solution, I should have checked the COSHH sheet,  mind you it still burns like stink after mixing with paint if it gets on your skin so would it not burn through a plastic bag?   

Brian, take your shutters to the decheterie and chuck them in the metal bin.  You should not have any problems with doing that. 

[andyh4]

Ron

quite right you definitely do not want this stuff on your skin.  It burns like hell - that's the caustic soda, the methylene chloride probably does does you no good at all (like most chlorinated solvents) but AFAIK is still deemed as "OK", and the methanol in large quantity would turn you blind.  Solid caustic as a solid is usually stored in sealed polyethylene bags - so no problem with that - and the two solvents cannot soften the material either.

 

But the fact that it (chemically) burns skin does not mean it will burn/dissolve polyethylene.  Remember Hydroflouric acid (which is definitely to be kept away from skin unless you like gangrene) has to be kept in polyethyelene bottles because it is so reactive it will attack glass.

[Dick Smith]

Just as a general sort of question, in the days when lead paint was the norm were there many cases of people being harmed by it? Did painters and decorators go bonkers, like hatters? I have read stories that one of the reasons for the fall of the Roman Empire was the use of lead water pipes, but I don't believe it for a moment.

I thought the only danger came if you actualy chewed the stuff, which is not particularly likely with metal shutters...

[peterw]

Lead accumulates in the body. It can be ingested inhaled, drunk whatever. The bottom line is that if you get too much of it ABSORBED into your body it can have deleterious effects.

Adults absorb about 10% of lead whereas children absorb much more therefore they are more at risk.

Leads affects cell division (mitosis) its most serious effects are on the central nervous system. Because childrens brains are much more active ie growing and therefore undergoing mitosis, the effect on children is much more severe. They get a double whammy if you like- they absorb more of the stuff in the first place and then are much more sensitive to it.

The biggest risk is degrading paint which breaks down into lead paint dust. If children run around a house with lead dust everywhere it gets on their fingers and we all know where childrens hands inevitably end up- in their mouths.

Of course sanding old lead paint creates a lot of lead dust which gets onto- well everything, so it is best not to do this- stripping of the shutters would be best. This is less of a concern if the shutters are outside.

[Dick Smith]

According to the BBC the recycling of computers can also lead to high levels of lead in the body - this is apparently the case in India.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/click_online/4341494.stm

[Brian j]

???????? Anyone know where I can bring the shutters for disposal.. Near Julliac in Dept 19. I think it would be easier.

[Pantouflard]

This is the guidance leaflet issued to employers in uk by the HSE:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg305.pdf

If it was me, and I wanted to renovate the shutters as a DIY job I'd go ahead using the fairly straightforward precautions.

Don't forget to ensure animals don't ingest it either. 

 

[Pantouflard]

‘The methylene chloride probably does you no good at all’.  Yes, it’s certainly a problem in commercial paint stripping.

 

It’s classified as a Category 3 carcinogen in EC. (ie gives cause for concern, owing to possible carcinogenic effects, but insufficient information for making a proper assessment).

 

In high concentrations it’s deadly.   Absorbed through skin and a ****** for the eyes.

 

I’d again have no problem using it in a small diy job (especially outside) with sensible precautions.