Glowing flue with woodburner fire

[suein56]

Hi

I know it might seem hard on you to have had to refurbish the electrics and to have the wood-burner flue sorted as you have done, but I think you have been fortunate - considering the circumstances - not to have had a fire caused by either the previously poorly done electrics or the poorly installed wood-burner.

As TU used to say - can you 'porte plainte' or whatever against the previous owner for 'vices caches' (sorry can't find accents on OH's laptop) do you think?

I hope this does not put you off your recent purchase.

Sue

[Bobc]

"I am not an expert but I've sorted out a few problems for myself- don't fit a double flue if it is insulated as the fire will draw  faster. I haven't come across a flue damper, if by that the other posters mean a device that restricts the flue, that isn't part of the stove itself (I could be wrong, they may well be available), but fitting a damper when that isn't the cause of the problem could be risky (If the fire continues to burn too fast but the gases can't escape under all conditions)."

The whole point of a double flue is that it is insulated.

The ideal woodburning stove installation is a stove with efficient door seals and good airflow controls - combined with a stainless-steel double skin insulated flue system.

Many French stoves are of a very poor quality but offer high output at a low price. For a decent 12kw woodburner you should expect to pay at least 1500€ plus installation and flue system. For double-skin stainless steel, around 100€ per metre in 153mm - the most popular.

As a Premier dealer for Charnwood stoves in France, we have installed many stoves in a wide range of properties using double-skin flue systems and without the need for dampers or any other devices - the stove controls it all.

Bob Clarke
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/grindoux
www.charnwood.com

 

[Dave&Olive]

hi

        can i have a go on this one ...

1. flue dampers . fitted in the flue  above the poele to let air in to reduce the vacume in the poele.

2. as said in an above post over burning ... you say " you have all the air vents open" this will cause the fire to burn rapid ie red close these .

3. check to see if the seals on the doors are ok also on the dust pan door

3.b  does it have a thermostatic control knob ..make sure this is set right

4.wood unlike coal does not need a lot of air to burn .. thats why the most efficient coal fire is only 30% efficient ..and the most un-efficient poele is 75% efficient

5 now .. provided your stove has a max flue of 125mm dia. or less and is going into a flue of more than 153mm dia. you do not need a liner, for diy fitment..but as said before no pro will fit without  one because his insurance will not cover him.

           dave

[Bobc]

As ever, more mostly misleading information:

"1. flue dampers . fitted in the flue above the poele to let air in to reduce the vacume in the poele."

A flue damper would only be required for a very inefficient stove without any means of controlling airflow through the stove. Useful for restored vintage stoves. None of the major manufacturers recommend them.

"2. as said in an above post over burning ... you say " you have all the air vents open" this will cause the fire to burn rapid ie red close these ."

Quite correct - any fire that has any metal parts turning red with heat has a problem.

"3. check to see if the seals on the doors are ok also on the dust pan door"

True woodburning stoves do not have dustpans or dustpan doors. Charnwood stoves are supplied with a multi-fuel riddling grate for coal/wood use together with an ashpan. For stoves installed in France we remove the grate and ashpan and fit a front blanking plate across the ashpan slot. This is all covered by the twin doors.

Woodburning stoves are designed to be used without an ashpan - with the fire burning on an ashbed on the floor of the stove.

In the UK we had a Coalbrookdale Darby stove which had a non-removable grate with an ashpan below. The twin doors had ropeseals - the ashpan door did not as it was below the grate level and not required.

"3.b does it have a thermostatic control knob ..make sure this is set right"

There are a handful of thermostatically controlled stoves on the market - from user reports they would seem to be very unpredictable when used with wood rather than solid fuels. Presumably if the system worked then all the leading manufacturers would offer them. I don’t think this stove falls into this class.

"4.wood unlike coal does not need a lot of air to burn .. thats why the most efficient coal fire is only 30% efficient ..and the most un-efficient poele is 75% efficient"

Possibly some logic here - but who burns coal in France?

"5 now .. provided your stove has a max flue of 125mm dia. or less and is going into a flue of more than 153mm dia. you do not need a liner, for diy fitment..but as said before no pro will fit without one because his insurance will not cover him"

What on earth are you saying here:

Very few woodburning stoves on sale in France have a flue outlet of 125mm or less.

Most decent stoves have a flue outlet of 153mm or 180mm.

Forgetting the brico products, most quality stove manufacturers guarantees are conditional on the stove being installed by a professional installer.

Charnwood stoves offer a 10 year guarantee on their stoves - - providing they are professionally installed - with a liner where required.

Bob Clarke
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/grindoux
www.charnwood.com

 

 

 

 

[Dave&Olive]

hi

           was going to post a reply but sod it ....

             dave

[Teamedup]

So what is a clapet then? I have not seen a chiminee without one.

[Bobc]

"So what is a clapet then? I have not seen a chiminee without one."

Good question - the only ones that I have come across in France are on insert (cassette) fires that I have removed to replace with a woodburning stove.

Regards,

Bob Clarke
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/grindoux

[Wilko]

Hi

Bobc, could you elaborate on "with a liner where required"

Thanks Wilko

[Bobc]

"Bobc, could you elaborate on "with a liner where required"

From the Charnwood installation manual for the Country 12 woodburner:

Chimney

In order for the appliance to perform satisfactorily the chimney height must not be less than 4 metres measured vertically from the outlet of the stove to the top of the chimney.

The internal dimensions of the chimney should preferably be 175mm or 200mm, either square or round and MUST NOT BE LESS THAN 150mm.

If an existing chimney is used, it must be swept and checked. It must be in good condition, free from cracks and blockages and not have an excessive cross sectional area. If you find that the chimney is in poor condition, then expert advice should be sought regarding the necessity of having the chimney lined. If it is found necessary to line the chimney, then a lining suitable for solid fuel must be used.

If there is no existing chimney, then a prefabricated block chimney or twin walled insulated stainless steel flue to BS4543 can be used internally or externally. These chimneys must be fitted in accordance with the manufacturers instructions and Building Regulations."

Charnwood stoves for the French market conform to French regs and are supplied with installation and user manuals in French - the guarantee paperwork has three sections - the purchaser - the supplier - the installer. If the second two are not registered approved companies, then the guarantee is invalid.

From personal choice I always use a double skin insulated Fumistar flue system. The components clamp together - are available in straight pipe and bends to get through most old chimneys and can be easily sealed off at the top to keep out rain, etc.

Where there is no existing chimney there are two solutions - for open barn conversions, etc, then a double skin flue straight up through the roof. I use Laheyra flashing kits on the canal tiles common in our area. This makes a watertight exit for the flue very simple. They also produce kits for other tile types in other areas.

If a chimney for rendering/tiling, etc is required, then I use Imerys Ceramys boisseaux.

These are terre cuite interlocking blocks with a central circular hole:

For a stove using a double skin liner - boisseaux diameter 23cm

Use the same Fumistar components inside and to cap it off.

If you want to build the chimney without a liner - boisseaux diameter 18cm - I have no experience of this - if you are going to do it, then put the liner in.

Do not go for the 16cm diameter boisseaux tereco

Trust this helps,

Regards,

Bob Clarke

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/grindoux

www.charnwood.com