Suitable water pump?

[Chris Head]

I'm going to dig a 6m3 holding tank which will have rainwater pipes draining into it and also I can top it up from our source. I'll need a pump with plenty of power to water lawns & flora over about 800m2.

What sort pump should I be looking for?

 

[Gluestick]

Chris:

The fluid dynamics of pumps are in fact quite simple.

The questions you must ask and answer are:

1.    What Operating Pressure do I require?

2.    What rate of delivery do I need? (i.e. gallons per minute; cubic metres per minute);

3.    What "Head" must I be able to pump to? (In other words, what is the height difference between the lowest level in the water tank and the highest point in your garden? Answer, e.g. 6 metres = Head.).

Finally, what is the expected operating (duty) cycle? In other words, for how long do you intend to operate said device? One hour? Two hours?

Last bit is purely practical. Is the pump self-priming? In other words will it prime itself from the feed pipe if the pump cavity is dry? if not, then you will need to "Prime" the pump every time you want to use it.

 

Your  - (probable (bear in mind I do not know the numbers!) -  best bet is a submersible pump, able to deliver the expected performance in terms of pressure, delivery rate for the time you need it operating.

This should be self-priming (as the inlet port is under water: make sense really!), and cooled buy immersion , which expands the duty (operating) cycle.

Clark in the UK offer some good pumps; check out their retailer Machine Mart online.

Most of these pumps are made in Asia and simply "Badged" according to which importer sells them: many are identical in France.

 

[Chris Head]

[quote user="Gluestick"]

Chris:

The fluid dynamics of pumps are in fact quite simple.

The questions you must ask and answer are:

1.    What Operating Pressure do I require?

2.    What rate of delivery do I need? (i.e. gallons per minute; cubic metres per minute);

3.    What "Head" must I be able to pump to? (In other words, what is the height difference between the lowest level in the water tank and the highest point in your garden? Answer, e.g. 6 metres = Head.).

Finally, what is the expected operating (duty) cycle? In other words, for how long do you intend to operate said device? One hour? Two hours?

Last bit is purely practical. Is the pump self-priming? In other words will it prime itself from the feed pipe if the pump cavity is dry? if not, then you will need to "Prime" the pump every time you want to use it.

 

Your  - (probable (bear in mind I do not know the numbers!) -  best bet is a submersible pump, able to deliver the expected performance in terms of pressure, delivery rate for the time you need it operating.

This should be self-priming (as the inlet port is under water: make sense really!), and cooled buy immersion , which expands the duty (operating) cycle.

Clark in the UK offer some good pumps; check out their retailer Machine Mart online.

Most of these pumps are made in Asia and simply "Badged" according to which importer sells them: many are identical in France.

 

[/quote]

 

Great info GS, thanks for taking the time to reply, it's very much appreciated. Herself thinks it's a wacky idea but I'm convinced it's the right thing to do.

   What Operating Pressure do I require?

I really don't know, I would like to be able to give the garden a really good soaking in a couple of hours, so I guess enough pressure to deliver 4-6m3 in that time.

.    What "Head" must I be able to pump to? (In other words, what is the height difference between the lowest level in the water tank and the highest point in your garden? Answer, e.g. 6 metres = Head.).

5-6 metres max.

I'll have a look at Machine Mart.

Is it OK to leave those pumps permanently submersed?

Edit...Brilliant! Problem solved GS...I owe you a pint! Just got to dig the hole now!

 

[Gluestick]

Glad it helps Chris.

Submmersible pumps are fine to leave immersed all the time as they are manufactured from stainless steel and plastic.

In fact the concept of storing rainwater and using it for various purposes is rapidly growing in popularity.

So-called "Grey Water" technology goes one stage further and re-uses waste water from showers, sinks, dishwashers, washing machines etc, filters, processes and delivers it pumped, for loos, watering gardens and so on.

In theory, it could also be totally processed and drunk, by using a series of filters and finally Reverse Osmosis and I believe that this is the thing of the future with new builds.

Some info here: http://www.oasisdesign.net/

The thing is in France, most people have bigger land areas and could accommodate the subterranean tank: and water tends to be very expensive!

 

[Chris Head]

I'll just start with the rainwater/source for the mo. I'm putting alot of hours into softscaping and the thought of it all being ruined through lack of water isn't too enticing. Paying heaps for water is less enticing, a big hole, a pump and Mother Nature has gotta be a whole load of fun!

[TWINKLE]

[quote user="Chris Head"]a big hole, a pump and Mother Nature has gotta be a whole load of fun![/quote]

Good name for a rock album too[:)]

[friend of stouby]

It is a great idea Chris.

We inherited a 1.5 m3 underground cistern filled by a rain water guter, the water is cool, very clean and clear compared with a water but, and in fact we are so impressed that we will be installing a tank similar in volume to yours, during this summer.

Jamie

[friend of stouby]

... another thought

It will be helpful to have a pressure on/off switch fitted in the hose line as is fitted to caravan taps, so that when you want to stop the water flow you only have to turn off the hose at the nozzle rather walk back to where your pump is

 

[BIG MAC]

I am thinking of using a Flygt submersible on a chain dropped down my well pumping to an above ground holding tank in an outbuilding then watering garden using buried weep hoses possibly with solar powered valves

[Chris Head]

It will be helpful to have a pressure on/off switch fitted in the hose line as is fitted to caravan taps, so that when you want to stop the water flow you only have to turn off the hose at the nozzle rather walk back to where your pump is

I'm not familiar with that device Stouby...wouldn't the pump still be running but with nowhere for the water to go?

I'll be laying porous hose underneath capillary matting before planting up Mac, it's a useful watering device for folk who don't have much free time.

[BIG MAC]

Hi Chris, an inline flow swich cuts the power to the pump as soon as demand ceases ie when nozzle shuts. A domestic single head shower pump with inline flow switch would work on a gravity system but if you are lifting from the ground you would likely need a buffer tank.

You can of course have automated pumping ala sprinkler systems but suspect this is ott for your needs...one things for sure...answer will be on "T"  interwondernetweb somewheres.

[Gluestick]

Oh Boy!

This "Simple" water reservoir project you started with is starting to go really upmarket now, Chris! [:D]

The inline switch is the same as a pressure washer: when demand stops, as Big Mac says, the switch tuns off the pump.

Alternatively, you could use the same system that French and Spanish rural properties with only well water used to use - and probably still do! -  which is a like a small compressor that provides artificial "head", and thus whenever you turn on a tap, water rushes out!

Actually, for a hose pipe, you only really need somewhere between 4-8 PSI, so if you turn off the hose, the fact thatthe pump goes on is no big problem: it will (Should![blink]),  have its own built-in relief valve to prevent it going "over pressure".

Of course, you could always start Syndicat de Leau de Source Head, and like Dell Boy did, bottle it and sell it....................

 

[Chris Head]

[quote user="Gluestick"]

Oh Boy!

This "Simple" water reservoir project you started with is starting to go really upmarket now, Chris! [:D]

The inline switch is the same as a pressure washer: when demand stops, as Big Mac says, the switch tuns off the pump.

Alternatively, you could use the same system that French and Spanish rural properties with only well water used to use - and probably still do! -  which is a like a small compressor that provides artificial "head", and thus whenever you turn on a tap, water rushes out!

Actually, for a hose pipe, you only really need somewhere between 4-8 PSI, so if you turn off the hose, the fact thatthe pump goes on is no big problem: it will (Should![blink]),  have its own built-in relief valve to prevent it going "over pressure".

Of course, you could always start Syndicat de Leau de Source Head, and like Dell Boy did, bottle it and sell it....................

 

[/quote]

When it comes to putting it together I hope you guys can talk me through it?

The internet says that normal tap pressure is around 1,5 bar, 2 bar being really good.

I guess 4 bar is going to be like Niagra falls? Perhaps I should enlarge the holding tank? Although that's alot of graft with a pick and shovel.

Any sources for an inline switch? What compatability am I looking for?

Twinks...you call your album that and you're into me for a dogs danglies hosepipe, OK?

 

[BIG MAC]

I think New Team do an in line flow switch and single head pump you may be able to use the flow switch to operate your lift pump I hadn't thought of that crude but effective probably.

[Chris Head]

Thanks Big Mac, I'll have a look around this evening.

[Gluestick]

Stick it all down here, Chris and we'll all try and help.

I think the deal is you sweat and grunt: we'll think! [:D]

 

[Chris Head]

Willdo GS, thanks. I prefer the pain to the thinking...it reminds you you're still alive and you sleep well!

[Jonzjob]

Hi Chris, it looks as if Gamm Vert could have just what you are looking for as one of their promos.

Starting tomorrow, "Pompe immergée Idra 4000 Pompes Guinard Loisir, 230 volt 600watt capable of 4300 l/hour, max pressure 3.3 bar. Comes with 10 meters of strong rope and cable, all yours my boy for 225€,20.....

This site will tell you where your nearest is, if you don't know that is???? http://www.gammvert.fr/magasins/index.php .

[Chris Head]

Cheers for that JJ...I'm not all that keen on GV, they can be really pricey.

I'm looking for more power too, I figure if I can pump some serious water and return it back to the tank when it's not needed for watering I could have the Creusois equivalent of the Viagra Falls for next to nowt! Cool or wot?

Have you finished with your nurse?

[Gluestick]

You cannot be serious man! [:D]

Chris, that's a huge quantity of water in an hour!

And 3.3 bar is circa 44.4 PSI!

UK main water pressure is circa 1.2 - 1.6 bar!

 

[Jonzjob]

4300l/h = 2 pints/second. 16 galls/min.  995 gals/hour ish. Don't seem quite like Niagra but do you want the water faling or rising from a tank????

Plus if you are looking for MEGGGA flow you will have MEGGGA electrifical bills to go with it peut etra???

Just noticed too. There is another 20 centimes eco pollution tax[:-))].

[Gluestick]

I thought he wanted it for watering the garden, JJ?? [8-)]

A much bigger pump and he will empty the storage tank far too quickly! [blink]

Chris: are you proposing a water fall or similar? s well as being able to water the garden??

If so then you need a different sort of pump.

Let us know! [:D]

[Jonzjob]

Big garden, short hose peut etra?

Oh yes it has a 2 year warranty too. I heard of one with a lifetime warranty once. When it broke it back fired, farted and drowned every living thing with a 100 yard radius! Quite powerful though from all acounts. May be what you are looking for Chris?[8-)]

[Gyn_Paul]

this all seems to have got  very complicated....

Chris have you looked at the pumps in Brico Depot ? The above ground

ones with an attached pressure vessel?  I've been using one for a

couple of years to draw water from my well for arrosage, watering the

sheep, and - recently - the feed to a bathroom in the attic (cold, hot,

but don't brush your teeth in it!). It has a built in pressure switch

which turns the pump off and on as demand requires, and the pressure

vessel stores 50L or so with a cushioning air-gap above it to smooth

out the flow. Almost no difference between that and the mains supply

except it's a damn-sight cheaper.

Yes, they are a bit of a buggar to prime, but you only have to do it once.

A couple of points you must keep in mind with the trickle hoses are

1) they need quite a decent pressure to deliver very much,

and

2) the supply needs to be extremely well filtered otherwise tiny

particles of grit will block up the pores and before you know it you'll

have ordinary non-leaking hosepipe!

I'm in the process of routing all my gutters back into the well (via a

filter system). My own personal underground water storage system !

p

[friend of stouby]

Yes I thought of this type too, but without the accumulator attached. It is possible to get the same pump without an accumulator but not sure if the pressure switch comes with the pump on it's own ? Guess a quick trip to a brico will soon tell.

Used one of the combi units to supply all onboard water requirements on a large live aboard barge for 5 years, worked a treat with never a problem, just purred away. The only maintainance is to check the accumulator pressure about once a year, but that is easily done. 

As Chris is watering a garden, he wont be too bothered by smoothness of flow created by having an accumulator ??

Jamie