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[quote user="powerdesal"][quote user="J.R."]Nothing wrong with that for an unterminated first fix.[/quote]

If there was a circuit identification anywhere in sight.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do not let them anywhere near a Comms room or a server farm!

What an unholy mess.


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With only one multicore twisted pair cable (each pair carrying a different coulor code) no circuit identification is needed at this stage, I speak from many years experience of intruder alarms, access control and automation systems.

If I had seen lots of little masking tape flags with the intended use annotated on each pair I would have assumed that it was the persons first installation, just as my first one looked.

Even if it were an existing system being temporarily disconnected, say to move the control panel somewhere else, where most of us would label the wires if we had not installed them originally, it would still not be necessary to label them; the information could be written on a notepad.

I do understand where you are coming from Powderesal, many of my clients used to look in shock at how many unidentified (to them)cables and cores there were prior to commisioning an installation and would ask "however do you know where every wire must go?"but from what I can see it is only one cable.


Now I look again perhaps I can see that it is one unstripped cable and also several other stripped ones enering from the top of the junction box, still nothing to worry about unless it is a different person who will be commissioning to those who laid in the cables, even then it is usually relatively easy to trace which is which.

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The black cable you see is the incomer from the 380v board, 3p+n, the spagetti is the outgoing circuits to the various lighting and small power circuits in the whole building which comprises a 6.6kv switchroom, a 380v switchroom, DCS room, battery room, battery charger room, outside security lighting, emergency lighting, fire protection panel etc.As small power and lighting are standard 240v the final dist board will have the loads spread across the 3 phases.

The outgoing circuits dissapear into the buried trunking , or rather the spagetti comes out of the buried trunking with no apparent tagging of which circuit is which. Live, neutral and earth for each circuit.

Logic tells me that if , for example, the 6.6kv room lights are all on red phase(they should in fact be split across all 3 phases) then the wiring coming from the 6.6kv switch room should be identifiable as being just that, as opposed to the wires coming from the 380v room or any other room. Then of course there is the feed to the separate A/C dist board. Also the various socket outlets around the building obviously are not part of the lighting circuit. There is no information tagging whatever.

The installation spark claims he knows which is which - I hope so because I need the building lights operational NOW. The 6.6kv bars were energised yesterday. The Aircon is running on temporary construction supplies.

In short I would have expected to see some sort of ID showing where the supply cables were going within the building.

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Is that lot being held in place by an old SDS drill? - it is difficult to get an idea of scale....

If I am wiring up a large junction box, I tend to note the position of the gaine as it enters the box, against the function of that gaine. saves remarking everything as you cut it to length.

Perhaps you had better trust your pro, eh? Then again, this isn't France, is it? Aircon on a builders supply? Fat chance!

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No its held in place by a shuttering clamp.

The panel is about 75cm x 1m (ish)

I have no choice but to trust the contractor, time is not on my side on this project.

No not France, aircon is essential, for the electronic kit, not the people ( but they do benefit of course) and we have to avoid sweat dripping onto the boards, its salty and hence corrosive.

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They always look a mess at this stage don't they?  JR - If I had a euro for every time someone had asked me the " how do you know what all those wires do " question, I'd be a rich man. As it happens due to the French system of heavy cotisations, I'm quite poor!

Labelling although useful doesn't really matter as all circuits should be verified for continuity anyway.   I also have a very useful cable identifying device that you just plug onto a set of up to ten wires and then at the other end you can idenify them easily. Telecoms workers have had them for years of course.

Anyway here's one I did this week - before and after pictures! If these links work that is!







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Blimey it shows how you can be fooled by scale, or how bad my eyes are getting.

I thought it was a 75mm square junction box with external (black covered) telecoms cable going into it!

Even now I know the scale I can make out neither an SDS drill bit or shuttering clamp.


Nice install, I am assuming that the two sockets under the tableaus are the ones required by the normes to be fitted in/to the tableau. If so that is a nice way of avoiding buying those expensive DIN rail ones, I will remember to do that next time and am sure that the consuel inspector would accept them.

Is the bottom tableau the colonne locale technique?

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Yep your right JR, the two sockets in the GTL (gaine tecnique lodgement) are obligatory for a Consuel inspection whether the client wants them or not, and there's no requirement for them to be Din rail mounted either so you guessed right about cost!

The lower board is a basic but obligatory "coffret de communication" that is a central terminus for telephone, TV, RJ45, alarm wiring etc.

All new installations and total renovations have to have these now but really sometimes it is really impracticle to do!

Now if you want to see a real horror story, take a look at this job I went to yesterday (see photo below). The old boy used to work for the EDF and he robbed bits from old jobs to wire this house out . He died (probably electrocuted) and the house is now owned by some nice people from Guernsey. It is all exposed wiring and was three phase. I went yesterday and got it converetd by the EDF to single phase, and the first thing I did was install a 30milliamp RCD as the main incomer, until I can get back to sort it all out and install a proper tableau.




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I know its a bit out of focus but ..........

The shuttering clamp is the grey bar running from bottom left corner up right at about 30 degrees.

Looking again its probably 750mm x 750mm cos it looks square[:P]

Hopefully, when I get back to site on Sunday they will have sorted it out over the week end, I decided to have this week end off - for a change! The main contractor wasn't working today, at least the site manager wasn't, I imagine the erection crew were ( or I hope they were) plus the civil contractor who is in serious danger of delaying the job.

Maybe I should post some progress photos.

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