Grouting this kind of wall

[Pads]

I would like to regrout between the stones on these kinds of walls now would it be better to use a lime based grout.. or what kind of mix should I use ?

Its in the mountains and can get very cold in the area up to -20 so I have heard ..... will this detirmine what I should use ?

Any other hints tips ? many thanks

 [IMG]http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z22/pads_03/IMG_4395.jpg[/IMG]

[TWINKLE]

I think I know where that is[:)]

[Pads]

You should do .... you where flat on your face only yards away from it last week  [;-)]

 

I have been waiting for you in the old folks home !![:D]

[TWINKLE]

Makes a change from being flat on my back! Boum boum!!!

[Pads]

That came later ..... did I tell you you snore in a very twinkly way ....

Anyhow get off my thread its meant to be serious ... the builer bob types wont give me any answers....[:D]

[TWINKLE]

I am being ignored in the old peoples home - I'm not used to being ignored should I mention Terry Wogan and cozy slippers?

I am leaving your thread alone now dear[:)]

[woolybanana]

What do the locals use?

 

[TWINKLE]

Wild boar!

Okay - I'm gone[:)]

[Pads]

Wooley im a woman .... hard looking grey stuff ... they dont come out of there houses long enough to ask them [;-)] I just wanted to know now (while in england )so I can pratice with it over here before going to do it for real next time im out there ...

No they use wild boar to park there tractors on ... come on you know that .... . I have just popped in to the old folk home they said you had been and gone again ... meet ya back there .

[Bugsy]

'Tradifarge' lime-based mortar mixed with sand (about 13 shovels of sand to half a bag of lime).

Wear good washing up gloves and throw it on by hand, spreading it well into the gaps then brush off the excess with a brush.

Finish off with a wet brush to clean the stone before the mix dries.

Good fun.

[Théière]

Just to add to Bugsy's post.

Sand comes in different grades, use the coursest grade you can find, that gives the bigest range of particle sizes and can help prevent cracking.

Pack it in as tight as you can rather than "speading it" it can be worth using a small mallet and various odd size pieces of wood to Lightly tap it into deep holes.

Good idea with the washing up gloves, that way you can do the washing up and leave OH to do the pointing [:D]

[Pads]

[quote user="Bugbear"]'Tradifarge' lime-based mortar mixed with sand (about 13 shovels of sand to half a bag of lime).

Wear good washing up gloves and throw it on by hand, spreading it well into the gaps then brush off the excess with a brush.

Finish off with a wet brush to clean the stone before the mix dries.

Good fun.
[/quote]

 

Bugbear is this a trade name that I will find in builders yards ? ( Tradifarge ) any Idea of the french for Lime based mortar mix ?

I intend to practise a bit on a old wall here in my garden , then start on an old out building out there once I have perfected my tecnique start on the main building ...

Is it a good Idea to remove all the old stuff first or just what is loose ? will it bond well to what is already there.

Any other tips chaps ? 

[Théière]

Pads, as a pureist, should just be Chaux Blanche + Sable. Just re read your post, hydraulic lime is now available in most larger builders merchants in the UK. finding good sand is harder. You may need to mix some sharp sand with builders sand to get the same as you will use in France.

Lafarge or St austier produce the whitest finish although the sand colours the mix.

Remove all the loose and make the joints at least 25mm deep so that the strength is there, you will see lazy work being done but it flakes off because it is not deep enough. to be sure make the joint as deep as it is wide if you understand me.

Bon courage 

[Pierre ZFP]

All I can say is that is a helluva lot of grouting.

Whatever material you end up using, may I suggest an electric grouting gun or you'll be doing it for ever.

(PS Just Lurve the crazy window frame!!)

[pachapapa]

Tradifarge is derived from two words Traditional and Lafarge. Traditional is self explanatory Lafarge are an important manufacturer of cement and lime based products. But all producers will have an equivalent, including St Austier situated in La Dordogne. All these products have the disadvantage of containing white cement preventing breathing of the wall, as would be obtained with a Chaux Aérienne or a Chaux Naturelle Hydraulique. Whilst watching television last night I had a quick look at snaps of the "round room" and in particular the treatment that had been given to the inside wall. I presume that your location is Montagne Noire, possibly the Tarn Department. The stones appear to be schistose and remarkably well packed and I seriously doubt that any repointing is in fact necessary as the mortar used in pointing is usually left with its outer surface at 15-20 mm from the face of the wall. But perhaps your reasons are more for appearance than weather proofing.

[Bugsy]

Sorry Pads, I forgot the bit about preparing the walls.

Use a hosepipe to wash of the loose stuff and dirt and keep the wall damp when applying.

I'd ignore pacappapa comments about lack of breathing from a product like Tradifarge. It is specifically designed for this purpose and does allow a wall to breath (french artisans tend to know what the're doing and thats all they use around here).

.

[Théière]

[quote user="pachapapa"]

But all producers will have an equivalent, including St Astier situated in La Dordogne. All these products have the disadvantage of containing white cement preventing breathing of the wall, as would be obtained with a Chaux Aérienne or a Chaux Naturelle Hydraulique. [/quote]

Pachapapa, are you absolutely sure that both or either of those products contain cement, I could not find anything on the bags saying beton. In fact I am pretty sure that my bags of chaux balanche actually said Naturelle Hydraulic. Where I trained to do the work the owner was a purist and he bought St Astier. That is just an urban myth.

http://www.stastier.co.uk/

 

 

[pachapapa]

[quote user="teapot"][quote user="pachapapa"]

But all producers will have an equivalent, including St Austier situated in La Dordogne. All these products have the disadvantage of containing white cement preventing breathing of the wall, as would be obtained with a Chaux Aérienne or a Chaux Naturelle Hydraulique. [/quote]

Pachapapa, are you absolutely sure that both or either of those products contain cement, I could not find anything on the bags saying beton. In fact I am pretty sure that my bags of chaux balanche actually said Naturelle Hydraulic. Where I trained to do the work the owner was a purist and he bought St Austier. I was wondering if that is just an urban myth.

 

 

[/quote]

A battle me and an alter ego have had on several forums. But to save time a quick paste.

A majority of french artisans use a Tradifarge natural hydraulic lime, all the producers including St Astier have a Tradifarge product.
The Tradifarge product contains some white cement which according to the publicity improves the product and its suitability for use on all buildings constructed by homo sapiens since the stone age.
The link below gives the typical product specification for the Lafarge Version of Tradifarge, the other producers are similar.
http://www.lafarge-ciments.fr/wps/portal/Ciments/ProduitsSAC/FicheProduit?cimentType=SAC&path=%2FLAF_Ctg_ProduitCiment%40LAF_Hierarchie_ProduitCiment%2F39%2F40%2F380%2F384%2F69
The real reason for the addition of the white cement is that even a poor artisan will be fairly quickly able to produce presentable work without having to worry about the extra difficulties inherent with working a true natural hydraulic lime.
The marketing of the product is effective as most everybody thinks they are getting a real unadulterated natural hydraulic lime. The natural property is irrelevant so it can be mixed in a cement mixer without any problem.
No quarrel with your mix proportion and I appreciate that a wire-brush would be necessary on the following day due to the hard surface resulting from the cement content. The brush is better than the soaked sponge technique commonly used on the same day. However neither of these methods are suited to pointing done with a genuine natural hydraulic lime

Health Warning: Reading these words may damage the health of your wall[:D]

I draw your attention to the following text in french contained in the description of the Lafarge Tradifarge product.Cette chaux blanche NHL 5-Z contient en effet du ciment blanc qui améliore la résistance du mortier. In fairness to Lafarge it is my opinion that they produce and sell the BEST chaux naturelle hydraulique in france.

[Théière]

In a few words Pads,

Stay away from Tradifarge, technichal bit NHL5 is too hard and brittle for natural stone walls. NHL3.5 is better as it allows movement without cracking.

Tradifarge will be ok if your building with concrete blocks.

Stick to Chaux Blanche + Sable.

Chaux Blanche does not contain cement only this mixed stuff does.

[Bugsy]

Tradifarge

Chaux Naturelle Hydraulique..

Tradifarge is a natural hydraulic lime NHL 5-Z.

Thats the stuff I used.................................

.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="teapot"]

In a few words Pads,

Stay away from Tradifarge, technichal bit NHL5 is too hard and brittle for natural stone walls. NHL3.5 is better as it allows movement without cracking.

Tradifarge will be ok if your biulding with concrete blocks.

Stick to Chaux Blanche + Sable.

Chaux Blanche does not contain cement only this mixed stuff does.

[/quote]

Teapot  so nice to be able to completely agree with you; a pleasure to read your post. I would just like to add a Z to get NHL 3.5 Z; the Z indicates that the natural lime contains pozzuolane whose magical properties were used by the Romans in the construction of the port of Herculaneum...... The very, very, very best Lafarge Chaux Blanche NHL 3.5 Z.[:D]

[Théière]

As it says Bugsy, for concrete and hard stone, ok on granite and flint, which some building are made from in France, ours is soft tuffau.

 

[Pads]

[quote user="pachapapa"]

Tradifarge is derived from two words Traditional and Lafarge. Traditional is self explanatory Lafarge are an important manufacturer of cement and lime based products. But all producers will have an equivalent, including St Austier situated in La Dordogne. All these products have the disadvantage of containing white cement preventing breathing of the wall, as would be obtained with a Chaux Aérienne or a Chaux Naturelle Hydraulique. Whilst watching television last night I had a quick look at snaps of the "round room" and in particular the treatment that had been given to the inside wall. I presume that your location is Montagne Noire, possibly the Tarn Department. The stones appear to be schistose and remarkably well packed and I seriously doubt that any repointing is in fact necessary as the mortar used in pointing is usually left with its outer surface at 15-20 mm from the face of the wall. But perhaps your reasons are more for appearance than weather proofing.

[/quote]

Do I  know you ? how did you see the snaps I took of the round room and the ones inside , when I have only posted one of the out side ,

Has someone posted my pics on the telly...? Im confused[8-)] 

They are well packed , and appearence is not as important , as weather proofing and protecting the building are my main concerns at the moment

I have noticed that  some parts are set back put some parts are grouted to the surface ... why would this be ?

[Théière]

[quote user="pachapapa"][quote user="teapot"]

In a few words Pads,

Stay away from Tradifarge, technichal bit NHL5 is too hard and brittle for natural stone walls. NHL3.5 is better as it allows movement without cracking.

Tradifarge will be ok if your biulding with concrete blocks.

Stick to Chaux Blanche + Sable.

Chaux Blanche does not contain cement only this mixed stuff does.

[/quote]

Teapot  so nice to be able to completely agree with you; a pleasure to read your post. I would just like to add a Z to get NHL 3.5 Z; the Z indicates that the natural lime contains pozzuolane whose magical properties were used by the Romans in the construction of the port of Herculaneum...... The very, very, very best Lafarge Chaux Blanche NHL 3.5 Z.[:D]

[/quote]

Yep discovered by accident as he was cheating the builders because he had run out and used the pozzulanes' to make up the weight, Allegedly.

See I was trained in this but escaped back to wild [:D]

[Bugsy]

[quote user="teapot"]

As it says Bugsy, for concrete and hard stone, ok on granite and flint, which some building are made from in France, ours is soft tuffau.

 [/quote]

My mistake TP, I was confident that it was correct for our 'flint' house and didn't know you had a soft tuffau..............[:P]

[:D]