John Sergant Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 We are negotiating the price of a big village house and are getting prices for necessary works. The roof is leaking badly and although the house is very old the roof timbers are not the expected forest of wood but a rather flimsy assortment of wood, and my first and second thoughts were that the whole lot needed replacement, this was supported by the first estimate received The roof is big – 375 sq mtrs, double hipped ie four sided and needs complete removal, new timbers and canal tiles, the roof plate will be replaced by concrete. The price…78 000€Does this sound about right ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex H Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 No idea - you clearly need at least 2 more quotes [:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG MAC Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 We cannot see the roof therefore information insufficient. It may be if the whole roof is coming off that you wish to take the opportunity to upgrade the ceiling joists to create living space in the new attic? A few questions which I don't expect you to answer but simple thoughts which occur straight away.If any of the following have not been considered in Devis then you may be hit with supplementary costs..At 78,000€ I would suggest creating a specification which covers all that you want and then tendering it this way your Devis' will be apples for apples.Does it have chimneys, if so how many?Is it a three storey building?Is there access all sides?Is it a sloping site or fronting onto a road?Is there limitation on materials useage imposed by Mairie or Architects De France?What is the proposed make up of the new roof, is it to be steel framed for instance?Are there Velux or dormers being incorporated?Does the current roof have sarking boards?Is the roof to be counterbattened and insulated incorporating a breather membrane?How are eaves to be detailed?Is there an agreed contract period?Are rainwater goods to be replaced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromage Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 It sounds like a lot to me. We are having a 300 sq mtr barn roof replaced for less than half that amount. Okay, it's not a direct comparison because our roof is only 2-sided and the "A" frames are all okay but that is still a big difference. I would certainly advise getting more quotes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG MAC Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Vievienne :- A hipped roof is going to be far more complex than a Crux roof particularly as you are retaining the Crux and probably the purlins also. In essence you are replacing chevrons and liteau no complex angled cuts etc. a hipped roof is full of compound mitres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromage Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Sorry, I don't claim to know anything about roofing and it's obvious from your comments that I don't! [:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderhorse Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 [quote user="John Sergant"]... The price…78 000€Does this sound about right ?[/quote]Nothing sounds right until you've got at least three quotes, vetted the artisans, and got some feedback from other jobs they've done. And usually that can't be rushed.And whatever it takes, make sure you understand WHY certain costs/work need to be incurred. Sage nods can hurt the pocket. [;-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 John, are you hoping to deduct this facture and perhaps others from the asking price? I ask because there have to be limits to all things and with the sort of factures that we often hear about, one or two reasonable repairs commensurate with the age of the property if substracted from the asking price would have the seller paying the buyer to take the house off their hands. Unless someone is kite flying normally the asking price reflects the condition of the property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldgit72 Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Whats 78k euros to an ex BBC politics correspondent[:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldgit72 Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 [quote user="VieVienne"]It sounds like a lot to me. We are having a 300 sq mtr barn roof replaced for less than half that amount. Okay, it's not a direct comparison because our roof is only 2-sided and the "A" frames are all okay but that is still a big difference. I would certainly advise getting more quotes.[/quote]I'm getting quotes for my barn. It's smaller than yours with 180 sqm footprint. I'd be interested to know what you are getting for your money ie chevrons replaced, guttering and type of tiles. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Sergant Posted June 28, 2009 Author Share Posted June 28, 2009 The house has a footprint of 375 mtrs x 2 floors so we would never need to go to the attic let alone convert it. The house has access on all sides, two are roads, the rainwater goods will be replaced, there are eight chimneys which will not be touched, the roof structure will be replaced with engineered wood, the currant roof has sarking boards, the quote does not include these, the house is not listed but protected and the canal tiles will be new tiles similar to the old tiles, insulation is not included in the quote. The roof has flared eaves.We are getting three more quotes but I still really just wanted to have some feedback from people who have had similar roofs replaced. We do not expect to get the house reduced by the cost of renovation - the vendor would certainly end up paying us 200 000 using the 1000€ mtr2 formula. We will do some of the work and will pay for other but need to get a good idea of the cost before we decide to buy or not, we have already established the lowest price that will be acceptable, which is very reasonable but this will certainly be a small fraction of the total cost. If restored by artisans the cost would certainly be more than the house value it will be a l-o-n-g- t-e-r-m- project for us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG MAC Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Wee bit confusing....Scaffolding roadside will need to be considered although the French do use some funny systems.The eight chimneys will be flashed into the roof with back gutters etc. if replacing these in lead you will have a fairly expensive job on your hands.I suspected there may be sarking boards however you will need to consider whether these will be replaced.Engineered wood? what glue-lam beams etc. or do you mean graded timber?Sounds as though there will be design required which will need to be allowed for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 375m2 footprint, sounds more like a chateau!Good luck to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Sergant Posted June 28, 2009 Author Share Posted June 28, 2009 The wood will be glued "I" beams - the back gutters in lead - in UK I have seen these for £60 ish. I expect the next 3 quotes in a week or so I will post the results here for general interest. The agency tell me there is a Parisian buyer interested hence my need to get prices together, I am not taken in by this I expct it is Mousier M Mouse but I woulkd like to finalise this one way or another ASAP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG MAC Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 I would say to flash a chimney in lead of the correct code (French tend to use tin now) with all that is entailed including inserting in chases along with lead wedges re-pointing forming and lead burning / welding you would be looking at £350 to £400 in the UK minimum. then with a fully hipped roof what is the capping detail on the ridges..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 [quote user="John Sergant"] The house has a footprint of 375 mtrs x 2 floors so we would never need to go to the attic let alone convert it. The house has access on all sides, two are roads, the rainwater goods will be replaced, there are eight chimneys which will not be touched, the roof structure will be replaced with engineered wood, the currant roof has sarking boards, the quote does not include these, the house is not listed but protected and the canal tiles will be new tiles similar to the old tiles, insulation is not included in the quote. The roof has flared eaves.We are getting three more quotes but I still really just wanted to have some feedback from people who have had similar roofs replaced. We do not expect to get the house reduced by the cost of renovation - the vendor would certainly end up paying us 200 000 using the 1000€ mtr2 formula. We will do some of the work and will pay for other but need to get a good idea of the cost before we decide to buy or not, we have already established the lowest price that will be acceptable, which is very reasonable but this will certainly be a small fraction of the total cost. If restored by artisans the cost would certainly be more than the house value it will be a l-o-n-g- t-e-r-m- project for us[/quote]John, If the roof is in bad enough repair to need complete renewal, how come the eight chimneys are in such fantastic condition they need no work at all? My instinct and experiance of this sort of work is you will end up repairing or completely rebuilding all or some of the chimneys: that is the nature of major renovations. Then you will need to insulate the new roof.As a builder and developer in the UK for the last 30 years I was shocked at the cost of getting anything done in France. For example, a price for new brown plastic doors and windows in my French build: the UK price for equivalent work £6000-ish, French price (delivered with a straight face) 30,000 euros. Hire of telescopic handler for two days: UK price £150-ish, French price 750euros. Bear this in mind before you take on a 750mtr2 renovation. On the 1000euro mtr2 (which is a load of tosh anyway IMHO, but it gives amatures and banks something to work to) you are looking at 750,000 euros for new build. Properly done Renovation is more expensive in my experiance. Can we assume the grounds of the property are in need of work also? If you have unlimited amounts of dosh you are quite happy to burn then fine, if not, take care your dream doesn't turn into a nightmare. Of course it is possible to build at reasonable costs but you really need to know what you are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG MAC Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 So a complete roof timber and all is to be replaced without removing gulley boards back gutters and flashings............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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