Condensing Oil Boiler?

[Grecian]

First question does such an animal exist in France?

We have taken the decision to replace our ancient oil burning boiler, hopefully with a new condensing boiler, or if an oil condensing boiler does not exist in France, then a brand new oil burning boiler, which hopefully should be more efficient than our existing 30 year old boiler, which I think will have used approximately 2000 litres of oil in a 12 month period.

We have considered installing a dual oil/wood burning system, but not sure if the extra cost of installation would bring much in running cost savings. Or maybe splitting the hot water and heating into two separate entities, and using an electric chauffe eau for the hot water.

I think the heat pump option would be too expensive upfront, and I am really not sure how the pipes could be laid under our existing stone tiles anyway. Again I think the LPG route would costly upfront as we would need to have a new holding tank and pipe work into the house. Solar panels I have no idea about cost and efficiency.

So can anybody out there advise if condensing oil burning boilers exist in France, and if so any recommendations.

All feedback gratefully received.

[powerdesal]

Basic question, why replace with an oil fired boiler (other than already having an oil tank) ? Oil can only go up in price. Have you considered a gasifying wood burning boiler?

[Chrissie]

We replaced our ancient oil boiler with a new Geminox condensing boiler.  This also had an option to heat the hot water, but for a variety of reasons this was not practical for us.  (We also considered alternative fuels, but in our case the old oil tank would have had to have been removed and this would have meant de-gassing and then cutting it into bits, for which we got a variety of amazingly exorbitant quotes.  After we installed the boiler, the price of oil promptly rocketed - that's life!)

We are happy with the boiler although it is rather more intelligent than we are, if you believe the blurb.  It relies amongst other devices on an external thermometer and the placing of this is crucial. Ours is not brilliantly sited and so we often find ourselves over-riding the boiler's wishes on those mornings where it is hot and sunny at the front of the house and cool and damp at the back...   Why not re-site this control? - you may well ask. I have given up arguing with the installer. It uses about the same amount of oil as the ancient one but on the other hand it heats the house much better.

We also were able to claim a tax credit (I think 40% of the cost.)

Hope this helps

Chrissie (81)

 

[powerdesal]

As your summary shows, a condensing boiler is only as efficient as the manufacturers claim when it is in condensing mode, ie at or close to full chat, after that its not.

[Le Plombier]

You have some very interesting comments in reply to your post

All the major manufacturers make and sell condensing boilers, both gas and oil, I have fitted both gas and oil and they perform very well

Their performance is excellent on normal radiator systems and they do produce the cost savings of circa 30% as claimed

Heat pumps are expensive to install, geothermie being very expensive but producing a 75% reduction in running cost

Contra to popular belief they will work with raditor systems if correctly installed, although they may require a change of radiator in an existing system

LPG is currently expensive to buy, I know as my heating is LPG, however the installation cost for the tank is minimal or free as the distributor will do a deal to get you on board. Combined with a gas condensing boiler it is a good option of performance and control at a medium running cost

Solid fuel is currently cheaper but you still have to hump the wood ( or pellets ) and dump the ash

Solar is good for pools and domestic hot water, it might well heat your house also but only if you want a solar panel for a roof or a huge hot water store

Aerothermie is good if you have a modern very well insulated house, not good in other situations

Given that I was resident in France for tax, living in my house for the very long term, prepared to make the investment and enjoy the cheapest heating and hot water, with nothing to do but twiddle with the programmer, then the only choice for me would be geothermie, unless of course the cost of a fuel cell drops to the cost acceptable to a normal household

Le Plombier 

[Grecian]

Thank you all very much for your replies, a lot of useful information within them.

Chrissie if we go down the condensing boiler route, I hope we are intelligent enough to master using it!

powerdesal/hillfarmer thanks for pointing out the possible pitfalls of a CB.

Le Plombier once again thanks for your input, you have laid out our options very clearly. Just one dimmy question, is a heat pump the same as a geothermie?

[Le Plombier]

The heart of a geothermie and an aerothermie system is a heat pump ( pompe a chaleur )

Geothermie = water to water heat exchange

Aerothermie = air to air or air to water heat exchange

Le Plombier

[Grecian]

Having investigated our various options, we are considering possibly going down the solar panel route, and have got one devis for this option so far. If we were to go for a new condensing oil boiler, can somebody tell me what the French for condensing oil boiler is please, we asked our French teacher but she did not know. Once I have a few devis for this option, then it will be easier to make our decision as to what method of heating to go for.

Any feedback much appreciated.

[Sunday Driver]

Condensing boiler = chaudière à condensation.

 

 

[powerdesal]

[quote user="Grecian"]

powerdesal/hillfarmer thanks for pointing out the possible pitfalls of a CB. [/quote]

Whatever happened to 'hillfarmer's' post ?

[Grecian]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

Condensing boiler = chaudière à condensation.

[/quote]

Thanks SD, now why can't all French words be that easy?

 

 

[nemltd]

Hi Grecian,

We too have looked at various forms of central heating/hot water.

Geothermique (Ground source heat pump)

We discovered it is the cheapest to run by far but prohibitively costly to install. Bore holes or Coils are expensive and underfloor heating is recommended, although modern radiators and comprehensive insulation would be paramount. Hot water temperatures are adequate but not as high as you might be used to.

Air source heat pump

Much cheaper to install than geothermique but even with comprehensive insulation and underfloor heating, it does not give the levels of heat required in the depths of winter.

It would seem the Scandinavians have cheaper hardware and already have the modern construction and insulation techniques to compliment the heat pump systems, so cost and efficiency is not such an issue there.

Solar

Our research suggests this is also very expensive to install and maintenance would not be simple, not many specialists around yet. Hot water seems efficient enough, you will need temperature regulators. Not very effective for heating.

Oil - Standard or Condensing

In France boilers are probably twice the price of England, our devi quoted 4000 euros plus TVA at 5% (renovation rate) just for the boiler (26kw standard) With a new hot water cylinder (200l) and various other hardware and labour, the devi rattled up to nearly 10000 euros, not including radiators, these are also very expensive in France, compared to say B&Q.

LPG

Not researched, would be interested if anyone has any details?

In the short term we have decided to stick with our electric hot water cylinder (120l) and a new woodburner, while we save up some more!

Would be interested in what you decide and why.

Good luck

Tony

32

 

[Poolguy]

[quote user="nemltd"]

Hi Grecian,

We too have looked at various forms of central heating/hot water.

Geothermique (Ground source heat pump)

We discovered it is the cheapest to run by far but prohibitively costly to install. Bore holes or Coils are expensive and underfloor heating is recommended, although modern radiators and comprehensive insulation would be paramount. Hot water temperatures are adequate but not as high as you might be used to.

Air source heat pump

Much cheaper to install than geothermique but even with comprehensive insulation and underfloor heating, it does not give the levels of heat required in the depths of winter.

It would seem the Scandinavians have cheaper hardware and already have the modern construction and insulation techniques to compliment the heat pump systems, so cost and efficiency is not such an issue there.

Solar

Our research suggests this is also very expensive to install and maintenance would not be simple, not many specialists around yet. Hot water seems efficient enough, you will need temperature regulators. Not very effective for heating.

Oil - Standard or Condensing

In France boilers are probably twice the price of England, our devi quoted 4000 euros plus TVA at 5% (renovation rate) just for the boiler (26kw standard) With a new hot water cylinder (200l) and various other hardware and labour, the devi rattled up to nearly 10000 euros, not including radiators, these are also very expensive in France, compared to say B&Q.

LPG

Not researched, would be interested if anyone has any details?

In the short term we have decided to stick with our electric hot water cylinder (120l) and a new woodburner, while we save up some more!

Would be interested in what you decide and why.

Good luck

Tony

32

 

[/quote]

 

Disagree with you Tony on a few points.

Ground source is the THE most expensive to install and although relatively cheap to run, is not as cheap as solar (which is free) to run - if you want the proof, then I can show it too you

Air source - no arguments there

Solar - I can prove that Solar can provide a significant contribution to home heating and its a better choice ecologically that all the above. If there is need for backup (which there always) is then I choose gasification wood chip, but in reality it can be anything. Installation is no more expensive than your oil system, depending on the house and the availability of south facing site for the panels. If you find that the heat you have is insufficient, then you simply put up more panels. Running the system is FREE FOR LIFE- its a no brainer

OIL - yuck.... somewhere, somehow the message has to get across to this generation of rampant consumers that we have to stop burning oil, especially when there are viable alternatives. Don't know yet how that message is going to look like.... perhaps $150 a barrel will get your attention.

LPG - its the most expensive out of the lot to run, we've just decommissioned our system completely for that reason and to stop the carbon consumption.

ELEC - no different really to the rest, very expensive to run and by no means 'clean' energy. Limoges is still the most radioactive place in Europe as a result of the Elect generation in France.

 

Andrew

[bigears]

hi

If I was living permanently in france, I would install a huge woodburner that also ran a central heating system.  The other thing to do is to buy sufficient woodland.  Oil/gas/lpg will all become very very expensive in the not too distant future, remember just recently when the oil price was high, that was just a taster of things to come.  Solar panels to heat hot water would also be a good idea. 

[powerdesal]

Tony,

My only comment would be regarding your statement that radiators are more expensive in France, that has not been my experience. I dont know about B and Q but I compared the radiator price at screwfix with the same rads at Castorama (same brand, same size) and found, at that time (admittedly a couple of years ago) that the price in Euros at Castorama was numerically the same as the price in pounds at Screwfix, hence the price in France was cheaper. The same could not be said for rad valves which were cheaper in UK and with more choice.

[Grecian]

Hello Tony,

Thanks for your comprehensive reply listing the various options available. I must say I am surprised to read that you have a devis for nearly 10,000 euros for a new oil boiler and hot water tank, I don't know what I would expect to pay for the above mentioned, but I wasn't visualizing that sort of figure. I will have to get a few devis (not sure what the plural for devis is), for a new oil boiler and take things from there. I will let you know what we decide to do, when we finally make our mind up.