Cat5 cable for prises RJ45

[Chancer]

After passing all my gaines for two flats which I had patiently threaded with 4 pair telephone cable I now have to remove it and pull through Cat5 cable in its place, OK I know I only need do it for one socket in each room but I have decided to do it for all including those with Coax inside.

Anyway I have never used it before although used to cable up a lot of data networks on access control systems with screened Belden cable, I was expecting this to be something similar.

I got the cable from either Toolstation or Screwfix, cant remember, when I stripped the outer sleeving to tie it off I found that it doesnt appear to be screened at all, no foil screening or uninsulated core to ground the screen, inside seems to be just normal telephone cable albeit the twisted pairs are not as lazy if you understand my terminology.

Is this normal?

Does the outer have some screening material in the plastic mix? It does seem more rigid than normal.

And finally having never terminated an RJ45 socket before is there no a ground connection for the screen or should this be done at the tableau end, the data networks I used to do were grounded at one end only in case of ground loop potential differences.

Thank you in advance.

[Jako]

Cat5=UTP=Unshielded Twisted Pair. see wiki

[Quillan]

Cat5 and 6 are unshielded. I am not too sure why you are also replacing coax cable but then I don't know what the coax cable will be used for. You will need a 'punch down' tool which pushes it on to the connector (often referred to as a Krone connector after the original manufacturer) and cuts the end off at the same time. There is no need to strip and insulation from the wires, just the external insulation and then only the minimum so as not to loose to much of the twist. Europe tends to use the TIA/EIA-568-B (also referred to as T568B) wiring connections. Hope that helps.

[Chancer]

Thanks Jako.

I dont know why I am going to the trouble of changing the cable now, Ii will have a closer look to see if the Cat5 has differing twist rates.

[Anton Redman II]

What are your objectives for the wiring ?

[pachapapa]

Got a neighbour doing the electro tech installation course in Niort. He commented last week that if the pairs not cut to exactly the right length for the RJ 45 they werre not happy.

He finishes the year course in november.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4ZUTLFrxII&feature=player_embedded

[Anton Redman II]

In France they kiss on main stream l'amour baby not cheap displays (Joni Mitchel). The colo(u)r codes on the wiring does not match the cables I purchased in August and October this year

[Chancer]

Anton

I have no idea what your second posting was about but you asked my objectives for the wiring.

My answer is that I dont have any other than to pass Consuel,  now that the requiremnts have changed I am having to replace the previously installed telephone and coax cables with Cat5.

I realise that I only need do this for one socket in each piece but I might as well do them all.

My understanding is that by using 4 pair Cat5 terminated in an RJ45 socket by swapping cordons on the barrette de brassage the function of the socket can be switched from phone, TV or internet.

[Anton Redman II]

The second posting related to the colo(u)r coding on the video posted which were not the same as the cables I recently purchased in France . I thought that latest/current rules needed in each main room both :

an 8 wire socket for telephone plus

a second 8 wire socket for computer / TV all the way back to what I know as a patch panel.

I have not purchased the updated L'instalation Electrique as the requirements for telecoms and disabled access were not integrated into the book as a whole but were a 16 page section at the end without either entries in the index or revisions to the book as a whole.

 

[Quillan]

Cat5 is always a 4 pair cable, there are no other variants (like extra pairs) that can be called Cat5. It is not the same as phone cable either. The secret of Cat5 cable is in the 'two' twists, that's the twists on the pairs and then the way all the pairs are twisted together. You cannot run TV over Cat5 unless you buy a demodulator which starts at about £800 and goes up to about £9k to distribute TV depending on the number of channels you want to watch, see HERE for more information. So basically leave the coax where it is.

PP has the wrong end of the stick, or should I say wire with his video. The video is about making patch cables and is nothing to do with the basic infrastructure of a Cat5 system. It's actually cheaper these days to buy the cables off Ebay and alike than to buy all the equipment to make them yourself for the small quantity you need. When connecting to your wall plates and 'patch panel' you should strip back enough of the outer so that when you tyrap it in to place there is no strain on the wires to the punch down. Buy or borrow a good quality punch down tool and don't use the nasty plastic cheap ones, Krone make the best tool which is why all professional telecoms engineers use them, I have had mine for 20+ years and it still works perfectly every time. You should keep as much of the twist as possible between the end of the stripped outer and the punch down., do not try and re-twist if they come undone as too much of a twist is worse than no twist.

The cable Anton bought should meet T568A and B colour codes standard (they are the same its just what pairs go to what pins that's different), if it does not then its not Cat5 whatever anyone says or tells him. Cat5 supports 10BaseT and 100BaseT (thats 10mb and 100mb ethernet speeds). Cat5 cable must be made to EIA/TIA568A-5 standard and marked as such on the outside of the cable, if it is not marked as such then it definitely NOT Cat5.

If you think you need to run 1Gb over these cable then you should buy Cat5e cable but then the length of run is half that of ordinary Cat5 cable and everything is double the Cat5 price.

Finally there is a shielded version of Cat5 cable available but this is for areas where there is a lot of electromagnetic generating equipment such as a machine shop floor etc, other than these type of specific areas one uses unshielded. You also need a special patch panel and outlet for the shielded version both of which are more expensive (usually around 3 times the price). You don't need the shielded version in a home or office. The only place I have ever used it was Perkins Diesels in the engine production area.

I can't remember how many Cat5 installations I have designed and installed over the year nor the amount of cable but its a lot.

Hope that helps.

[Chancer]

Thank you Quillan.

I was very concerned about using the Cat5 cable to carry television signals as per the new normes, it didnt seem right to have no screening, I can now see that anyone buying a new property who has already been shafted for up to €1600 for the coffret de communication alone will get another nasty shock if they want to recieve television via an ariel, still more bread on the table for the sparky.

So grace à your information I am going to leave the co-ax gaines as they are and just replace the telephone cables.

[pachapapa]

....PP has the wrong end of the stick, or should I say wire with his video....

The video was Cat5e Cat6 not Cat5.[:)]

Nothing to prevent TV by coaxial and telephone et al by an RJ45 using Cat5; sort of depends on the date of the Permis de Construire and whether with or without "brassage". In any event even with "brassage" the supply of TV via the RJ45 would require Cat5e at least. Q it is time to get out of your LAN time warp and buy a copy of  NF C 15-100.

Now Hadopi is up and running I am reluctant to send a pirated copy.[:)]

In french script below any TNs are Hager gear.

■ Lorsque les socles de communication au format RJ 45 n’assurent pas la distribution de
la télévision, l’équipement minimum consiste en la pose d’au moins :
- 1 prise TV coaxiale dans les logements de surface jusqu’à 35 m2
- 2 prises TV coaxiales dans les logements de surface jusqu’à 100 m2
- 3 prises TV coaxiales dans les logements de surface supérieure à 100 m2.
■ Chacune de ces prises doit être desservie par une canalisation issue de la GTL. Le
câblage de ces prises TV peut se faire à partir du coffret de communication.
■ Le coffret de communication peut être de deux types :
- Coffret sans brassage :
Le coffret dessert individuellement les prises RJ 45 à usage uniquement téléphonique de
l’habitat. Les prises télévision au format coaxial peuvent également y être ramenées si
l’équipement de distribution du signal est installé en son sein.
Le coffret de communication semi-équipé TN401 est la solution idéale pour la mise en oeuvre de ce type de système de communication.

Coffret avec brassage :
Les modalités de mise en oeuvre des sytèmes de communication avec brassage sont
définies dans le guide UTE C 90-483.
Le coffret centralise les arrivées téléphoniques et télévision pour diffuser les signaux
Internet, téléphonique et TV sur les différentes prises de communication format RJ 45 de
l’habitat. Il permet une exploitation optimale des prises de communication format RJ 45.
En fonction des composants installés, un système de communication peut rendre différents
niveaux de services appelés Grade.
• En Grade 1, les signaux téléphoniques et informatiques (jusqu’à 100Mbits/s) seront
acheminés depuis le coffret de communication sur les prises de communication format RJ 45
du logement. Le signal TV transite par câble coaxial.
• En Grade 3, les signaux téléphoniques, informatiques et télévision terrestre sont acheminés
depuis le coffret de communication sur les prises de communication format RJ 45 de l’habitat.

P.S. There are some very pretty "socles " in the sheds with coaxial and RJ45 together.

[pachapapa]

Hi! In a word if you have Cat5 UTP then you have only one choice a Grade 1 installation and a co-axial cable for TV VHF/UHF. Note better quality cable for SAT.

Take a look at the link below it has all the options with good diagrams.

Note the clear diagram demonstrating the EXACTLY 13 mm unwind, alluded to in post above.[:)] Get that wrong at Niort and you fail the trade test. At least thats what my neighbour says.

The link is from Aix-Marseille but is the same all over france.

http://www.stielec.ac-aix-marseille.fr/cours/abati/domo/vdi.htm

[Quillan]

Is there nothing you don't know about or are you simply a jack of all trades and a master of none? One thing for certain is you do engage your fingers before using your brain or in this case bothering to read peoples posts.

The video link you gave is about making off patch cables not the wall box's which if you watched it yourself you would realize and it was installing the infrastructure that the OP was asking about and not patch leads. By the way the reason for removing the outer insulation to a prescribed length for patch leads is not primarily to do with reducing the quality of the cable but to ensure the outer can be gripped by the cable support when the end is crimped because it is a single operation crimp. By that I mean it crimps both the wires and applies the cable support at the same time. Again this information is totally irrelevant at this time to the OP because that's not what he is asking about.

Everything mentioned in NFC 15-100 is not new, its been around for years as a cabling system. To start quoting different categories of UTP cabling systems simply confuses matters more in this instance and is not required information for the question the OP asked.

Likewise, as your copied (hope its not from a copyright source by the way) French information says its OK to use coax for TV and UTP cabling was not and is not designed to carry modulated TV signals (as my link shows and I am sure if you Google around you will find more information). Why not, like other helpful people, just put comments into plain English rather than simply cut and paste, not everyone is as 'gifted' as yourself and able to read technical documents in French and this after all is primarily an English language forum about France or perhaps your ego won't allow.

By the way in new commercial installations Cat5 is no longer used and has not been for some time as it has been superseded by Cat5e although most people will cable in Cat6. Likewise if you cable with Cat7 you do so at your own risk as its still only in draft although the equipment and cable is available, but then the draft can always change and you could be left with a non approved system. This has happened before in the cabling industry and can happen again which is what got AT&T in to trouble years ago with its version of UTP structured cabling system. Most of it ended up having to be ripped out and replaced at great expense to clients.

[Quillan]

[quote user="pachapapa"]

Hi! In a word if you have Cat5 UTP then you have only one choice a Grade 1 installation and a co-axial cable for TV VHF/UHF. Note better quality cable for SAT.

Take a look at the link below it has all the options with good diagrams.

Note the clear diagram demonstrating the EXACTLY 13 mm unwind, alluded to in post above.[:)] Get that wrong at Niort and you fail the trade test. At least thats what my neighbour says.

The link is from Aix-Marseille but is the same all over france.

http://www.stielec.ac-aix-marseille.fr/cours/abati/domo/vdi.htm

[/quote]

You need to cross reference this to the spec as there are some errors as it is out of date. The most obvious is the phone connections, not allowed since Jan 2008.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Quillan"][quote user="pachapapa"]

Hi! In a word if you have Cat5 UTP then you have only one choice a Grade 1 installation and a co-axial cable for TV VHF/UHF. Note better quality cable for SAT.

Take a look at the link below it has all the options with good diagrams.

Note the clear diagram demonstrating the EXACTLY 13 mm unwind, alluded to in post above.[:)] Get that wrong at Niort and you fail the trade test. At least thats what my neighbour says.

The link is from Aix-Marseille but is the same all over france.

http://www.stielec.ac-aix-marseille.fr/cours/abati/domo/vdi.htm

[/quote]

You need to cross reference this to the spec as there are some errors as it is out of date. The most obvious is the phone connections, not allowed since Jan 2008.

[/quote]

The student aid document is dated 24/03/2007.

I presume you mean one of these [IMG]http://www.stielec.ac-aix-marseille.fr/cours/abati/domo/images/telephonie2.jpg[/IMG]

The document notes that they will be replaced by RJ45s.

The use of the RJ45 relates to the date of the Permis de Construire applicable to the works and not as I understand it the date of installation of an RJ45.

[pachapapa]

M. LEGRAND says;

Dans les installations faisant l’objet d’un permis de construire déposé à partir du 1er janvier 2008, toutes les prises de communication doivent être de type RJ 45 (disparition des prises en T)
et le coffret de communication sera équipé d’un DTI format RJ 45.

In installations subject to a Building Permit presented on or after 1st January 2008, all communication sockets must be of the type RJ45 ( dissapearance of T sockets) and the Communication Termination Box will be equipped with a DTI with an RJ45 format.

[broy]

I only bought my big fancy telly a year ago but there is no way at all to connect it to cat5 so I'm leaving all my co-ax in place and installing more in my new house and keeping the cat5 for phone and LAN. Am I wrong?

BTW my telly has s-video, hd, scart and all that but I wish I could connect the hd input to my laptops hd output through the LAN without spending a ton..

[Quillan]

[quote user="broy"]I only bought my big fancy telly a year ago but there is no way at all to connect it to cat5 so I'm leaving all my co-ax in place and installing more in my new house and keeping the cat5 for phone and LAN. Am I wrong?
BTW my telly has s-video, hd, scart and all that but I wish I could connect the hd input to my laptops hd output through the LAN without spending a ton..
[/quote]

No your not. The main idea of the RJ45 for TV is to send demodulated video and audio round a structured cable system. This means for example that should you wish you can have your video and audio out on your computer connected connected to second RJ45 (via a cable converter) and send it through the cabling system to your TV where you can plug it in to your video and audio 'in' sockets (or SCART) and then send something like Youtube to your TV. You may also install something like a Media Extender if you have Vista Home Premium or Vista Ultimate (or the Windows 7 versions) to have music sent to your HiFi or photo's and video stored on your PC to your TV. Likewise you can turn your PC in to either a terrestrial or satellite receiver and recorder by adding a card to it with this system. There is quite a lot you can do with this cabling system so I would leave the coax but I might consider, in fact I would if it were me, having a couple of coax outlets (one for terrestrial, the other for satellite) and RJ45 outlet near my TV, the latter for possible future use.

As to sending HDMI over RJ45 you can but you need to buy a special type of converter (a couple of little box's, one for each end) and they start at about 80 Euros for units that require two RJ45 connections at each end or about 180 Euros for a pair of converters that use only one RJ45 outlet at each end. A quick Google has found THIS American site but I am sure there will be French and UK companies selling the same stuff, you just have to go look for them. Some of the units are 'self powering' whilst other require a power supply. When doing this sort of thing you need to be aware of the length of cable run to compare against the specification of the converters you use.

[pachapapa]

Am I wrong?
No you are right.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="pachapapa"]M. LEGRAND says;

Dans les installations faisant l’objet d’un permis de construire déposé à partir du 1er janvier 2008, toutes les prises de communication doivent être de type RJ 45 (disparition des prises en T)
et le coffret de communication sera équipé d’un DTI format RJ 45.

In installations subject to a Building Permit presented on or after 1st January 2008, all communication sockets must be of the type RJ45 ( dissapearance of T sockets) and the Communication Termination Box will be equipped with a DTI with an RJ45 format.

[/quote]

I feel pathetic! dissapearance should be double "p" and not double "s"; abject apologies.

[pachapapa]

For PC -TV, assuming you have HDMI output and input, just connect with an HDMI cable and forget the LAN.

[broy]

Quillan, thanks for the informative reply.

I was annoyed that after installing cat5 wiring and reading about how its the future as its suitable for data, phone, audio and video etc that there were no tvs with RJ45 sockets or HDMI to RJ45 leads to link everything up. I think you can get fridges with RJ45 sockets though..

Pach, I do just connect the laptop straight to the tv but I'd rather the laptop and external hard drive could just be left on the desk out of the way of my marauding infants and the RJ45 socket behind my tv would atually get some use.

I've just been reading about audio over cat5 and that sounds cheaper to set up and I'll get more use out of it than video.

[Quillan]

Here is a possible solution for you but it does mean spending a little money but its possibly cheaper than trying to send HDMI down Cat5 given the cost of the converters and the fact that the quality is not as good as it should be (according to several forums I have read, even SCART converters over RJ45 loose quality).

Get a copy of Vista Ultimate, you can get one from Amazon (UK) for just under £80. Next get hold of a Linksys DMA2100 Media Extender for another £80 from Amazon (UK). You can connect these by RJ45 connectors which gives better performance than Wireless for HDMI because you need the bandwidth. Once installed then its a simple job of 'stuffing' and Ripping your CD's via MS Media player. You can also Rip DVD's, the best and easiest software I have found for this is Magic DVD Ripper which costs around £25 and has a 'for life' update service for Codec's so you can rip all the latest DVD's and Blue-ray disks.

Once connected you can listen to all your music via your HiFi or TV and watch your DVD collection whenever you want.

One word of warning about the Linksys Media Extenders, they don't work with Windows 7, I spent hours trying and reading forums on how to get it to work and regardless of MS saying they are compatible they aren't and that's well documented on many forums, of course neither MS or Linksys are of any help. It does work fine with Vista Ultimate and took under two minutes to install. I 'stepped over' Vista and went from XP to Windows 7 because I heard and read that Vista was unstable etc well its not, I have had no problems with it whatsoever but then perhaps its only the home editions that have problems.

[pachapapa]

For simpicity I would just buy a Paserelle Multimedia with 1080p HDMI connection to the TV and an "n" wifi connection to the PC and then use the Telecommande from the lounge. The cheaper ones without an HD start at under € 100. MicroHebdo did a technical review of a selection recently.