NormanH

[quote user="Ron Avery"][ He obviously knows little about the charges paid by "well off Brits" into the CMU, the difference between the CMU, CRDS and CSG, the way it is charged, who pays it and when.....  people are still liable to pay contributions sociale at a hefty 11% on any unearned income, like savings interest and rent income. [/quote] People with "unearned income, like savings interest and rent income" qualify as 'well-off' in my book. And if they have an E121 they are not paying into the CMU....

What a scandal that well-off Brits can avoid paying anything, yet benefit from the French system. However with all the reforms it won't last long....

I don't see anything strange

The article I quoted has some interesting facts in the context of the current changes: "le territoire français est le plus maillé au monde en terme de mètres carrés de grandes surfaces par habitants La France compte en effet un hypermarché pour 46 000 habitants lorsqu'il y en a un pour 51 000 habitants en Allemagne et un pour 130 000 habitants en Italie !" France has the largest  ratio of supermarket surface per inhabitant in the world. There is a hypermarket per 46, 000 inhabitantsn whereas there is one for 56000 in Germany, and one for 130000 in Italy (my VERY free translation) If this is right, there is something wrong with Sarkozy's argument.

There is an interesting counter argument with some fascinating differences of fact in this article (in French)

People who declare rental income on French property also get hit by Social charges, even if they don't do an ordinary job

I have had a similar offer with free... No problems living without FT it's the same line maintained by the same people, but you don't pay the FT subscription. On the other hand I live in a town. It might be different in the middle of the country.

http://www.impots.gouv.fr/portal/dgi/public/particuliers;jsessionid=BFNXTJ1H1KJVNQFIEMQSFFGAVARW4IV1?espId=1&pageId=particuliers&sfid=10

[quote user="Quillan"]From what I understand of what Norman wrote they actually did not refuse to do the lab work. [/quote] They did refuse to do it  in the letter, but it was a bluff to get the payment that the first clinic should have,  but hadn't made,  directly from me. When I went into today they said that as the second clinic had paid for the second test they had in fact done it .

Latest news: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/apr/28/ryanair.theairlineindustry

Panda you have lost me. I have been declaring my "revenus" for years on paper and more recently online and as far as I can see that is my tax return! Nowadays the income the tax people know about already (such as my French pension, and my part-time work) are already filled in. I have to add any other such as rental income, and fill in the extra form for any income from the UK, but once that is done, I have done my tax return

But of course there can be the sort of glitch I experienced, even with all in place and paid up. Money before care is fine while you have money.

In fact I now understand better. I went to the lab and paid the old bill today. The clinic that did the first biopsy last year never settled the bill with the Lab, which normally they should have done. So when the lab got another sample with my Sécu number it came up on their internal records as an unpaid bill. At the same time I had in fact paid the clinic last year, so I had no way of knowing that there was a problem. (I don't know yet if what I paid included the lab work, or it was just left out of the loop) the Lab did in fact do the most recent analysis which was paid directly by a different clinic in which my other Doctor works, and which is a bit more organised administratively, so they weren't as heartless as the letter sounded. They sent me the letter to get their money from the last time. Although I have been in France a long time my British instincts surfaced in the fact that this would never happen in the UK. With the NHS the medical care comes before money.

tH[quote user="dr orloff"]I disagree with the blackcurrant. I always declare on an 'accruals' basis.[/quote]  Then l suggest politely that you are wrong. Cassis for ever

[quote user="Russethouse"] Q, I think you may find that Norman has been in France for many years and paid into the French system, what he is highlighting is a difference in mindset, and I suspect that is valid, as rightly or wrongly many Brits would be horrified to be presented with this situation.[/quote] You have hit the nail on the head. My particular situation (compeletely misunderstood to a laughable degree by some unsympathetic posters such as Quillan) is that I have worked for so long in France that I have a French (not UK) pension which means that I will never have an E 121. (I would suggest that a few other people think about that because it will be the same for them later on ) My main point, which Russethouse has understood, is that our British instinct that if you have a major health problem you will be treated and for example a biopsy for a cancer would never be refused on financial grounds. This is NOT the case in France and you could find yourself refused treatment, if you can't pay , or if in my case there has been a glitch in the repayment mechanism in the past. So much for the so-called 'superior' health system in France..

[quote user="Ron Avery"]"NormanH has an extremely good point to make. Can you imagine if this happened in the UK, it would be national news and you could probably sue the lab senseless!" Another one who does not understand how the health service works in France, and/or the variations in whether you pay up front or not,  but at least he/she does not  live here[blink].  I believe that you can get your prescriptions made up at the chemist free of charge in France if you have a carte vitale and a mutuelle, how marvellous,[:D] In the UK you have to pay £7.10 for each item, and if you don't have the money with you they won't give them to you,  what a disgrace[:P]. [/quote] But of course I pay for the Mutuelle, which I wouldn't have to in the UK, and I also pay 8% of my pension for the côtisations toward the Carte Vitale, which a British pensioner wouldn't pay... And that is whether or not I am ill. I also believe that people on a low income don't pay prescription charges in the UK. So why is that amusing?

[quote user="Clair"]I am at a loss to see how an unpaid lab bill equates with poor health treatment [8-)] [/quote] I believe that you are French, so don't have the British 'gut instinct' that says when it is something like a test for cancer, money doesn't come into the equation. For most Brits 'good health treatment'  is synonymous with it being accessible for everybody, not just about the quality of the Doctor (which incidentally I find much better in the UK than in France, if you manage to get an appointment!) In some ways France is more American, and more commercial than the UK

[quote user="Ron Avery"][quote user="Sprogster"] NormanH has an extremely good point to make. Can you imagine if this happened in the UK, it would be national news and you could probably sue the lab senseless! [/quote]   To talk about suing on the basis of a letter the OP clearly hasn't understood is utter nonsense. [/quote] I am not sure what I haven't understood. Would you be so kind as to enlighten me? By the way I never mentioned 'sueing' I simply tried to bring to peoples' attention that things that are automatically free under the NHS aren't necessarily here.

From what I know of Béziers there are plenty of people ready to take your money..whatever the denomination of the notes [:D]

Thanks everybody. I just wanted to highlight the fact that in France such services aren't free at the point of delivery and if you can't pay you can be refused. I am in the fortunate position that it is a small bill, but I feel for someone with a large bill and a small income.

Well I hope nobody needs a biopsy because if you do they might refuse to do it! see the other thread (which I note has had almst no replies)

Looking back at my post I apologize first of all if it seemed to be over negative. Other people since have expressed what I wanted to say more sensitively: that you may be excited now, but one day you may feel differently, so your solution, keeping a place back in the UK is very wise. Cat  I have seen a survey on this, but can't find the reference just now. I bet there are very few people on this forum pre 2000 that could be the start of a survey? so anybody who says 'we came over two years ago and it's great' are really just still on holiday [:)] there is also a point after that at which people who were convinced they were settled in France go back. It's often tied to lack of work, or the failure of their business idea ( around 5 years) The only really long-term residents of British origin I know here personally are those who have married a French partner and had children here. And of those I know two couple who have left France because of the poor employment prospects for their children or themselves.

I fill it out on line If it is to send with a paper declaration you could just phone or email your centre d'impôts and they will send you one..

At least it wasn't a fatal accident, which is what had crossed my mind but I didn't want to post it in case it came true..

One of the differences between the UK and French systems is that in the UK the service is 'free at the point of delivery' In France if you can't pay, or don't have some form of cover, it can be refused, which seems incredible to British people used to the NHS I have Cancer, and have a 100% cover from the Sécurité Sociale, as it is counted as an ALD. Ir seems that some where along the line ( in June 2007) the analysis of one of my biopsy samples by the Pathologist wasn't paid for, because today, after having another sample sent to the same lab, I received a letter refusing to do the analysis of the most recent sample ( to see if I also have a cancer elsewhere) : I quote the last paragraph: "Nous vous rappelons l'importance des examens d'anatomie cytologie pathologiques qui ont pour but principal le dépistage du cancer. C'est pourquoi, si vous n'envisagez pas de régulariser votre situation vis à vis de notre Cabinet, nous vous demandons de venir récupérer votre prélèvement afin de faire réaliser cet examen chez un de nos Confrères pathologiste." My (very free) translation: We remind you of the importance of the pathological analysis of these samples, which is intended principally to detect the presence of Cancer. This is why if you don't intend to pay what you owe us from before, we ask you to come and collect the samples from us and take them to analysed at one of our colleagues' laboratories. Remember that this is paid for by the Sécurité Sociale They are sure of the payment as I am on 100% I didn't choose this lab, the sample was sent by my Cancer specialist, and I have never and any direct contact with them so it is not as if I had contracted anything with them I have no other outstanding Heathcare bills. The one they are quibbling about is for  [blink] 64,06 euros Of course I will go in and see them on Monday (give them cash if I have to) but I found the tone of the letter very misplaced; a sort of blackmail. "The Sécu haven't paid one of our bills so we won't do your samples, even though we know you have cancer...that will make you get of your backside and sort  it out" What I would like to do is make a lot of fuss about it. Has anyone any good ideas about who I can approach for maximum publicity? I can write good French..