P-D de Rouffignac

"..........Proposals (for new legislation) emanating from the Commission are passed to the Councils of Ministers, the European Parliament and the Economic and Social Committee for opinion and possible amendment. Once it has been adopted by the Council of Ministers, the proposal then becomes law - either as a new regulation or as a directive. Regulations are immediately applicable throughout the Community, whereas Community directives require enabling legislation to be passed by the governments of the Member States, and in this sense of 'indirect'. Delays can of course occur between the issuing of a new directive by the Commission and its becoming law in a Member State". * I wrote the above in 1990 but I don't think the procedure has altered much since, in spite of continuing changes to the so-called co-operation procedures between the European Commission (the bureaucracy in Brusels), the Council of Ministers (periodic meetings of heads of state and government), the E C S C (an advisory grouping representing social/trade union, business and 'other' interests) and the European Parliament. As I recall Community regulations are generally (slight) amendments to existing directives that have already become national laws in each Member State. *Presenting your case to Europe' Mercury Business Books, 1991, p 32. P-D de R.

It has always been the case that when selling a French property the owner has to commission and pay for a series of 'diagnostic surveys' including checking for the presence of lead, asbsestos termites etc. Recently added are tests of gas and electrical installations, and most recently the new 'energy performance' certificate (CPE), which provides a rating for the property and offers recommendations for improving energy efficiency with likely cost and resulting cost savings, for example from improving insulation. Normally these tests were done when an owner had found a buyer (witten offer), as some of them are time limited and may have to be brought up to date if the property is a long time on the market, unsold.  The only thing that has changed after January 1 2011 is that the 'certificate of energy efficiency' is supposed to be available from the moment the property is first advertised for sale - i.e. placed with an estate agent or advertised privately. The idea is that a potential buyer has this information ahead of making a decision to buy or not.   There are arguments for having the CPE done separately from the other tests or having them done all at once, questions of cost (savings). There are also discussions on whether the new recommendations are going to make any difference or not, particularly in the case of many holiday homes in the south that were designed primarily for occasional, summer occupation. I have also seen several recent energy efficiency certificates where the estimated cost savings are minimal, particularly when set against the cost of improvements (such as double glazing or roof insulation). See info on this and other forums. Hope this helps - P-D de R.

I agree with much of what has already been said here, just adding the following comments: 1. From my enquiries locally there is no evidence that local agencies, some with several hundred properties on their books, will be able to include energy efficiency reports by the 01 January deadline - because of.... 2. There are simply not enough trained 'experts' available to accomplish the task at such short notice, nor evidence they are facing any increase in demand for their services.   3. Locally, 70% of properties are classified as second homes and were primarily intended for occasional/summer use. Clearly if someone decides to live here all year round, as increasing numbers are, some improvements to insulation etc may be called for. A much greater problem is the strain on plumbing and electrics, as whole apartment blocks from the 60s and 70s, are gradually equipped with washing machines, dishwashers, fridge-freezers, air conditioning etc. 4. Much of the energy efficiency report is advisory, with suggested annual savings (frequently minimal) set against estimated costs to put right - the latter often far exceeding the former! I have asked FNAIM, the estate agents body, to comment on 1. and 2. for a longer article. They have so far stayed silent. P-D de R.  

Hi! You are already running into language problems by using the French word 'devis' in the heading of your post and then talking about an 'estimate' and 'a builder verablly quoting for work'.  An estimate or quotation is just that - an approximate calculation of what certain work might cost. A French 'devis' is a binding contract between the parties. More importantly, you need to be clear which legal jurisdiction would prevail in the event of a dispute - French or English. If French, which would seem likely in this case but depends on the builder's precise insurance, then all documentation would need to be in French and a 'devis' normally used. As others have noted, you need to ensure that your proposed builder is fully qualified and insured for work in France. In general, where translations of French documents (such as property purchase contracts) are provided in English there is a clause at the end stating that 'the English translation is provided as a guide only and that in the event of a dispute the original French document wil be the document of record'. Hope this helps a bit.   P-D de R.

Perhaps I can offer a slightly different slant on your situation. It sems to me from reading your post that your best option is to try and make the best of your situation in the UK - where you have established family etc ties, and your business connection. I would try developing your 'one man' practice locally - trying to do this from France only complicates matters, both legally as has been pointed out, and in terms of developing your potential (English) customer base. Regarding the French property, you could either sell it (preferably when the renovation work is finished rather than as a 'work in progess project' not generally popular with buyers) or rent it out on completion. Hope these few thoughts help, best of luck - P-D de R.

Very sorry to hear of your situation, Sue Buckle, but I cannot understand how this was not picked up by the Notaire, estate agency, vendor etc ten years ago when you bought your property. If they are still around, your first point of enquiry might be to them. Second, I agree with the advice given about apporaching the Mairie direct. That said, however helpful they may wish to be, if some aspect of the building is in breach of planning controls, they may not be able to grant retrospective planning permission - perhaps not until any irregularity is corrected. Some aspects are also out of their control - I am dealing for a client with a house built on agricultural land 15 years ago without planning permission. The owner/vendor assures me M le Maire is saying 'no problem'; while the chief executive is telling me 'no way, we know about this illegal property, it is also in a Zone Rouge (non constructible) and any decision would have to go the the Prefecture'. I have asked the owner/vendor to sought out this mess before we can even consider a 'compromis de vente' to get the sale moving. In the above case, the offending property was not even on the 'plan cadastre' when I enquired for a copy at the Mairie and told them something was missing........While this may all become an administrative embarrassment to those concerned - and hence a reason for getting it sorted out quietly - local decisions could be overruled.  Regrettably, this makes this property - and perhaps your own - unsaleable, as I have advised the owner. Without a watertight solution (curiously the property is also in a flood zone!) my potential buyers will not contemplate buying. I do hope you get it sorted out 100 per cent correctly.   P-D de R.    

As Will points out, the 'title deeds' to a French property are in essence an authorised version of the 'acte de vente' (deed of sale) of the property and this is not something to which you can simply  'make some amendments' after the event. It may well be that the Notaire in question is proposing a solution to a complex problem and unless you are yourself a trained lawyer (in French law) I cannot see how it is possible to decide that the Notaire has produced documents that you feel you do not need. Without knowing the full facts of the case, could I suggest you approach the Notaire, if necessary with the aid of an experienced bi-ligual interpreter, for an explanation of the documents produced and why. The regional Chambre de Notaires may be able to help in this respect, with a view to resolving any misunderstanding and reaching a speedy resolution. P-D de R.

I agree with woolybanana that you are perhaps expecting too quick a result after only a few weeks, particularly as the property market is notoriously quiet from about November to mid-January, due partly to people concentrating on Christmas and New Year. Two friends locally each had a property on the market since August, nothing happened for weeks, until last Monday - and totally coincidently - both receive offers within an hour of each other, one via an agent, the other privately. So you never know. Returning to England without leaving a set of keys with your chosen agent might result in the agent being unable to show the property to a client in your absence, and hence putting you in breach of contract. The mandate is a two-way contract - the agency agrees to apply their best efforts, you cannot on your side obstruct them in trying to do their job. Best to wait and see, and decide at the end of three months. P-D de R.

Just a quick reply as no-one else has picked this up. I understand from looking at discussions on this and other forums that the AE scheme is not entirely the best option for selling on Ebay etc online. This is because the percentage taken for tax and social security is charged on turnover (ie. total receipts) with no allowance for - in the case of distance selling - postage and packing. Also the AE scheme remains outside the VAT regimes....... I am sure you will find more comments by searching the various forums. P-D de R.

No surprises there, then. Century 21 (850 offices across France) reported back in July record annual rises in Paris of 8.48% and even higher at 11% in Provence/Cote d'Azur. Average in Languedoc-Roussillon of 7%. In October, the Observatoire de logement reported mortgage rates at 3.30% - the lowest since 1945, the previous record bening 3.36% at the end of 2005 (excluding insurance). Clearly just estate agents trying to talk up the market and pressure gullible investors. P-D de R.  

Regarding a French estate agent's 'advice', whether it is offered and how useful it is - One of the weaknesses of the French estate agency sector is the high turnover of staff (particularly in recent times) and the widespread use of self-employed negotiators with the staus of 'agent commercial'. As a result not everyone you encounter in an estate agency is experienced or has been in the business very long, and it is only with practice and experience of handling many transactions - all of which are different - that you learn what regulations or laws apply in a particular circumstance. Regarding the death of the buyer(s) during the course of the transaction - a 'compromis de vente' signed and all the conditional clauses fulfilled - yes, in theory, the inheritors are held to the transaction. In practice this does not happen, most often for the simple reason that they do not have the funds to complete the purchase. In this situation, a wise vendor would want to cancel the sale and quickly find another buyer, as resolving the succession problem of the inheritors could take months, even years. While English legal experts and translators can interpret and explain what is contained in the French documents, unless they are familiar - that is, in daily contact with buyers and sellers and have long practical experience of handling transactions - their usefulness is necessarily limited. P-D de R.  

Dear New Life - Regarding the electrical installation in the property, you will find that the new diagnostic survey - obligatory and paid for by the vendor - now includes a lengthy (I have encountered 12 pages) and detailed report, room by room, of the electrical installation, which will give you a good idea of its condition. If it does not conform to norms you might then consider consulting a qualified electrician for an estimate of the cost to put it right, and possibly negotiate with the vendor on this point. You are absolutely right to seek details of planning consents, artisans' guarantees and - if DIY work has been carried out - an expert view regarding its legality (such as the electrics noted above). These things can and should be included in the 'compromis de vente' (pre-contract) as conditional clauses ('clauses suspensives'), on which the final decision to buy depends. In France you buy a property - and sign a declaration to this effect - 'in the condition in which you find it' so you need to be absolute sure you are happy with your purchase. All that said, I have worked in the property business here for nearly 10 years, including time with an agency, and in my experience the majority of sales go ahead without any problems, and the system benefits from a number of in-built protections for the buyer, such as those noted above. P-D de R.  

Completion dates can sometimes slip, due for example to the non-arrival of a document from either side. Best to let the Notaire and/or the agency know as soon as possible if there is any likelihood in your case, if only to prevent any inconvenience to the vendor(s) who might be travelling some distance etc. P-D de R.  

In order to keep the process running smoothly, talk to your Notaire about what is happening regarding any CGT payable - in the case that this was a second home. P-D de R.

I don't live in the Nice area but can I offer the following advice born of experience? If you are furnishing with a view to letting (seasonal, long term) then you generally need stuff that is washable, cleanable, easily replaced (eg; new slip-covers on sofas etc). Unless you are going up-market, then antique furniture may be more appropriate, depending on the style of the apartment and the building, your personal taste. In which case second-hand stores, brocanteurs etc are among your sources. Whatever you choose, make sure it can be easily transported up flights of stairs or in a lift if applicable, not always easy in older buildings in town centres. A lot of modern stuff (Ikea, Fly etc) comes flat-packed and/or by mail order - somes friends have just had an Ikea kitchen sent from Montpellier, unfortunately in 112 un-marked cardboard cartons. Note that many of the stores quoted charge quite heavily for delivery, unless you hire your own or their van and do it yourself. P-D de R.

Your electricians - who I assume are correctly registered artisans - are best placed to deal with this, as they will have to deal with EDF. It is important to do this early, as in the case of some new installations - such as a house being converted into seaparate apartments - the electrical load required may be higher than is currently provided for by EDF. This is also happening in my area where many holiday apartments, often with just a 6kW supply designed for summer use, are being used all year round, with the addition of extra heating, washing machines, cookers etc and the building's existing supply cannot cope. P-D de R.

In fairness to my colleagues who are still at the agnecy where I formerly worked as a negotiator, I did not say and hope I did not imply that that we did NOT respond to emails enquiring about properties identified on the firm's website. In fact we spent a great deal of time doing just that, with a rule that enquiries were dealt with within 24 hours. My two immediate colleagues were/are totally bilingual and extremely successful. However, our analysis showed that enquiries that started with a phone call or personal visit were generally more productive, and more often resulted in a property sale. Hence my profile of the 'typical buyer'. Anyone running a successful enterprise will do an analysis of where enquiries come from and what are the results. Just because emails exist does not necessarily mean they are the best source of new business as our analysis indicated. In my own case, I prefer to phone or meet someone face to face. P-D de R.

I used to work in a French estate agency before going independent, and based on my experience there we calculated that replying to emails - especially from non-French enquirers - was largely a waste of time, and rarely resulted in a sale. Sorry if this sounds harsh but our profile of the typical buyer was: someone who knew the area; had visited before; phoned to make an appointment a few days ahead; did not specifically ask to see one or more properties identified, for example on the website; was prepared to sit down and discuss their 'wish list', timescale, budget, objectives (permanent residence, holiday home, rental investment, etc); was open-minded and prepared to listen to advice; allowed sufficient time, without rushing off to see another agency; frequently bought a property that did not meet their initial specification; had viewed less than ten propeties (average 6) before committing to buy. P-D de R.      

Can I suggest that one of you applies for a 'carte de commercant ambulant' (possible under A-E) and you start selling your products at the local markets, where you have a captive audience. You can enquire at the Mairies in various towns and villages to check availability and rates, and/or simply turn up - usually by 7.00 am - and ask the 'placier' for a space. Costs are low - around 2 or 3 euros per metre of stand, and I have friends who manage comfortably with just 3 metres. Products that appeal to women - clothers, household items - seem to go best and you can learn a lot walking round and seeing what others are doing, how they display and price their stock etc. I have been helping a young friend during the summer and we found the other stallholders friendly and receptive, and they tend to look after each other - for example, if you have to leave your stall unattended for a few minutes. Things like trestle tables, awnings and other ingenious foldaway display items usually come from a company called La Retif or you can pick them up second hand. Worth a try?

This is really maddening, as several of these bogus or fee-paying sites are advertised on and have near-hijacked the web-name www.auto-entrepreneur.fr (note the hyphen), one of the first and best private information and discussion forums set up at the end of 2008. I believe it was recently sold by its founder and owner. On the above site, the advice is to register with the CFE (centre des formalités d'entreprise) at your local Chamber of Commerce (for services, liberal professions, commercial activities), Chambre des Métiers, or URSSAF (commercial agents etc) as appropriate. There are nonetheless at least two commercial sites advertising on the site, offering to do the job for you, for 79 and 89 euros respectively. If in doubt, you can go onto the government website of apce (agence pour la création d'entreprise) for guidance and info. P-D de R.    

Fiscal representatives appointed when a non-resident is selling a French property are rather more than 'pals of the notaire'. They are approved by the French fiscal authorities and Yes, they charge for their services. There is a wealth of information on the French property forums such as www.frenchentree.com  on the subject of CGT, when applicable, allowances and deductions, how to calculate, and when a fiscal representative is required - enough information to enable a vendor to calculate the costs of selling his/her property that is not their principal residence; P-D de R.

Just to reply to the second part of your question re the 'compromis de vente' - this can be drawn up either by the agent or the Notaire. When I worked in a largish agency with four offices, it had its own legal department and we would normally prepare the 'compromis' and get it signed by the parties before (usually) the buyer returned home, as a way of speeeding things up. The 'compromis' was then sent by registered post to the buyer's home address and he/she then had the seven-day cooling-off period during which to reflect, starting from the morning after the arrival of the (signed) 'compromis' by post. A Notaire would follow the same procedure, and in the cases where the agency had prepared the 'compromis' the Notaire took over at that point on, to do the usual searches etc and prepare the 'acte finale'. Using either procedure, nothing is set in stone, and I have been at sessions to sign the 'acte finale' where amendments have been made to this final document, either to clarify points or correct mistakes (such as a misspelling or wrong date)) for example, with the consent obviously of all the parties. P-D de R.

Just a few comments on some of the replies to this question about using building surveyors. 1. Bear in mind that you buy a French property 'in the condition in which you find it' and if it is not to your liking, then there is no way of forcing a vendor to change anything and/or reduce the price. As a buyer, best to move on and find something else, while the vendor seeks someone who will by his property as is. Most buyers will not buy a property, even with a price reduction, if there are niggling, unfinished but essential jobs that need doing around the house. See M6 TV programme 'Maison à Vendre' for examples. 2. Not sure where you find all these friendly local builders so often mentioned on this Forum, prepared to come along and give you a free survey. At worst, it could be argued they have a vested interest in finding faults that only they can fix. Note also that the building trades in France are highly segregated - an electrician will not comment on work that needs a 'maçon', a carpenter on the state of the plumbing, and so on. 3. Regarding the electrical installation, the latest diagnostic surveys ('expertises') are very comprehensive regarding electrics, gas, energy efficiencty etc - and are paid for by the vendor. 4. If you are planning any kind of extension or alteration, then you could get an architect's view of the property and its potential, for a flat fee. Cordialement, P-D de R.

Reading this post, and looking at some of the jurisprudence related to 'vices cachés' I am inclined to take a view more favourable to the potential buyer in this situation. It is always arguable how much a vendor knew or was prepared to reveal about a property, with a certain reliance on good faith. In a case such as this, a court might take the view that he/she knew about the threat and the impending report - the situation appears to have been common knowledge in the town - and would have to decide whether the vendor and/or the agent deliberately concealed this from a buyer in order to conclude a sale. On the other side, a buyer does not have to be reminded that, for example, a property is next door to a busy road or an apartment is located above a potentially noisy bar, he can see this for himself. Likewise, he should normally be aware of the risks associated with living in a mountain area where there is a possibility of avalanches. However, in this situation it appears that the area surrounding the property has been re-classified to one of high risk which radically alters the value and attractiveness of the property. A French court might in fact side with the potential buyer. French law and jursiprudence distinguish between 'professional buyers' and the ordinary lay person, with a tendency to protect the latter, against those who could or should have known about a possible deterrent to purchase which a court might argue they had a duty to reveal. If expert reports were available at the time of the 'compromis de vente' it would be interesting to know how they described the situation, and again how much was known and revealed (or not) about the recent risk survey. P-D de R.    

There are numerous reasons why certain properties sell and others don't - priced too high compared with similar local properties, DIY renovations, unfinished renovations, un-appealing or eccentric tastes in decor, old fashioned decor and furnishings in an area where the market consists of young people, changes in the neighbourhood since you bought (roads, school, public buildings that may have blighted the surroundings), unfavourable reputation of the area whether merited or not, etc etc. For a comprehensive view, I recommend the M6 TV programme 'Maison à vendre' where an estate agent's comments and recommendations give a clue as to why a property has not sold and what needs to be done to make it sell. Invariably results in a sale. Very instructive if you are prepared to put aside the usual prejudices about estate agents for an hour or so. P-D de R.