Punch

There are two seperate issues here. The rules for conduits buried in walls are quite complicated but If conduits are plastered into a wall - ie ; chased in, then maximum horozontal  run is 50cm. Daisy chaining or repiquage as it is called in France is allowed for socket outlets and is indeed the usual way of wiring this type of circuit.

Hi Again, That height is fine - I usually put them at around 20cm. The rule is that they should be at least 5cm up from the floor level due to any dampness from mopping floors and such like. Hope that helps! Paul.  

Hi ,  My answers in blue Electric cables - exposed or in gaine.    We are working on the basis that any cable that is not exposed must be in gaine - thus we are putting all cable (or intending to) which is behind plasterboard (effectively in a void) into gaine.   Is this correct please ? Yes basically you are right - All cables in gaine where they are hidden and ALSO where they pass through floors and walls . All singles wires must always be in conduit or gaine also.  Number of lighting points which can go to one circuit breaker They are called "disjoncteurs divisionaires" (I hope this is correct terminology - one of the little boxes on the consumer unit).  I have read two things which seem to conflict;   1. Lights 1.5 mm cable, maximum power 2300 watts, 16 amp disjointer or 10 amp fuse, and 2.  8 lights per circuit .      Both are somewhat correct - Number 2 is the correct line to take as although 8 lights are allowed, it is assumed that not all will be on at the same time . It is good practise to not go over the 2300 watts if there is a possibility that the total load will be constantly at this level. You are correct in your fuse and disjoncteur sizing. We are intending to have 10 spotlights (mains), 50w each upstairs, and had intended to use one circuit breaker for these lights, but in view of the 8 scenario, would we need two please ? Definetely two circuits are required here. Telephone and TV points.   Our accommodation is intended for holiday lets and we do not intend to supply a phone point, and would ideally only put in one television point in the open plan area downstairs.    Is it absolutely essential in order to pass a Consuel inspection to have a phone line, and more than one TV point.  Yes, although I have found over the years that Consuel inspections vary and the inspector has discrentiaonary (sp?) powers in some matters not concerning safety. However the whole point of the Consuel is to bring all housing stock up to the same level of minimum confort so TV and telephone points in all main rooms is the norm. If you run cable, in gaine, down a wall, can you plaster over the gaine ? Yes as long as it is the corrugated gaine ICTA and not conduit IRL, and it is run vertically and not horozontally . There are a few exceptions where short horozontal wall chases are allowed . When Consuel comes to check your electrics, does he (or unlikely but possible, she !) need to see all the wiring? Not necessarily, but he is in his rights to inspect any accessible part of the installation.  Ie shall we leave only one side of each room division plaster-boarded, so that they can see, and plaster-board the other side after the inspection? No, the walls should be finished . Basically the Consuel inpector will know within a few minutes whether the job is amateur or professional and based on my own personal experience in my last fifteen or so Consuel inspections, he will base the rest of what he inspects on this basis ( as well as how long before his lunch and how many other visits he has that morning /afternoon!

Bought my house here for about "sixpence"  (lol) , 17 years ago and have lived here on and off for that period of time, but made a permanent move with my family and cut all ties with the UK 10 years ago .    

The Frech wiring Regs are quite clear - Maximum number of sockets outlets using 2.5mm cable is EIGHT. If using 1.5mm Cable the number is reduced to FIVE . For lighting circuits maximum number of points is EIGHT. Anton is correct that is you are going for the Label Promotelec then the maximum (recommended) number of sockets is FIVE. The Label Promotelec is generally for new build Pavillions and such like, and for the majority of forum users would probably not apply. You have to weigh up each job on it's individual circumstances on site, for instance if I was wiring a house which had seperate electric heater circuits then I would confortably put eight on one circuit if need be and especially if they were only ever going to be used for table lamps and such like. But if the house had wood heating, or no heating then there would be a distinct possibility that the customer would go and plug in heaters in the bedrooms and such like during the winter months. Therefore I would probably put in more circuits to allow a bit of diversity. I also make allowances wether I am installing double or single sockets - this is because a double socket counts as ONE for the regs, so that would mean you could have up to eight doubles on one circuit.        

Thanks everyone - it's pretty much as I'd thought. I will go online and pay the charge now in advance to save any problems. I need to drive direct to the funeral in Golders green so have to take my car as I have some heavy items for one of the attendees, otherwise it would have been the train.        

NO takers yet ? Where's Sunday Driver when you need him? lol.

Unfortuately I have to rush back to London for a funeral in my French registered vehicule. I would like to know if French registered cars are liable for the congestion charge?  I have been onto the goverment website and see that they nominate a company called EPC for foreign registration payment collection. However France is not one of the countries listed on the EPC website whereby EPC have power of atourney . I am not by any means trying to get out of paying but if there is no agreement that French registrations would be pursued I obviously don't want to pay if it is not necessary. Does anyone have any personal experience or advice please?  

It has already been done! http://www.expatsradio.com/  

Not quite sure what you meant by that Build Doctor - you obviously didn't read the last paragraph of my post! Funnily enough, the yellow tester that is shown in your link is the exact one that I have ( bought in France 2003).  I had a Consuel visit on Monday of this week and tested the earth - I got  a reading off 71 ohms. Then the Consuel inspector tested it on his visit using a different make tester and guess what he got ? - 71 ohms. Nice to see it is still working properly!    

Stray soil currents flowing in the vicinity and electro-chemical potentials on electrodes, make earth resistance measurements impossible using the ohms range of a multirange meter. Much larger test currents must be used. Resistances between 20 and 2000 ohms, typically 200 ohms, can be expected with standard test rods 25 mm in diameter and 1000 mm in depth.  However, in all the years I have been working in France I had never achieved below 100 ohms ( required by the Consuel) with a standard 1 metre rod . I always use a 1.5metre rod and typical resistances with one rod this length can be around 60 ohms in good soil, or a combination of rods spaced at least one rod length apart. Even better if a septic tank is being installed as earth plates and a boucle ( loop) can be installed at this time. Power units should be capable of supplying 100 mA. To drive 10 milliamps into a high resistance soil a supply of 25 volts or more may be needed. This is why I use a dedicated earth rod tester. These work by measuring the current flowing when a known voltage is applied.

We have used it in the past on parquet floors and have been impressed with the results You can order it on line here; http://www.solenbois.com/boutique/fiche_produit.cfm?type=9&ref=302010&code_lg=lg_fr&pag=1&num=5

Kingfisher, without actually seeing the house layout I can't really comment on your particular case. There are strict criteria for a Consuel visit and it depends on what boxes you ticked on the initial application - (renovation totale ou partiale, for example?) ,as to how the inspector has classiified your particular installation, and why he has classed it as two seperate installations. I go to regular Consuel and Promotelec workshops to keep ahead of the problems encountered, (my last meeting was last week at Laval in 53), when a  Consuel inpector and the head of Promotelec were there.  I had my latest Consuel inspection yesterday, which happened to be by the same guy who headed the workshop I went to last week. They all  know me now but the inspector arrived half an hour early for the visit. When I asked him why, he said that when he noticed the customers name was English , they always allow extra time because 90% of the time the inspection takes longer and they find more faults. As it happens it passed first time and he said " nickel " when he saw the job which is nice to hear ! In answer to the latter part of your question, there should only be one main  Prise de terre  for any single installation so by putting in two you have not abided by the French regs. I may be digressing here a little but generally the Consuel inspector are very lenient and fair compared to the NICEIC in the UK. There are five mains reasons for failure which are recurrent in Consuel inspections, 1. Main earth resistance too high  or non existant. 2.The Volumes in bathrooms not respected. 3. Liason equipotentielle ( earth bonding) 4. Non respect de contacts indirect. 5. Non respect de surintesities (fuses, sizing, cable sizes etc). There are also many failures now in quantitatif non respecté which basically means the minimum number of sockets, lights or telephone and Tv points has not been adhered too. I hope this helps, By the way please do not PM me privately for further info as I get so many requests that I do not have the time to respond ( I work 12 hours a day!!). Paul.

Some larger companies have their own in house testing for appliances but there is no obligatory appliance testing in France so you would be better to save your money ! Paul.

Yes it exists. We run a Renovation/construction business here in France and our accountants said it is a very good way to "buy" a business vehicle, as all payments on the vehicle are 100% tax deductable, and TVA of course too if you are registered for VAT. France is vast and we do huge mileages here (kilometrages actually!) and so need reliable vehicules. It often comes under different names but one of our four work vans that we have on the road here we bought new and is is leased on this basis and the deal is called Credit Bail. You pay a monthly fee including TVA , we claim the TVA back and then after the set period 3,4, 5 years etc, there is a residual to pay and then you either keep the vehicle or take out a new contract. The contracts come in all shapes and sizes ( with all servicing included for instance, and other options).  I had lease hire vehicules when I was in the Uk too and it seems exactly the same to me. It also exists for plant and materiaux ( construction plant that is and office equipement). One of the larger hire compnies in France Loxam location offer long term contract hire on much of their range.   Paul.

Many Notaires keep the documents on file for safe keeping and you usually have to ask for them if you want them! We got ours about twelve months after the sale! Paul.  

Yep your right JR, the two sockets in the GTL (gaine tecnique lodgement) are obligatory for a Consuel inspection whether the client wants them or not, and there's no requirement for them to be Din rail mounted either so you guessed right about cost! The lower board is a basic but obligatory "coffret de communication" that is a central terminus for telephone, TV, RJ45, alarm wiring etc. All new installations and total renovations have to have these now but really sometimes it is really impracticle to do! Now if you want to see a real horror story, take a look at this job I went to yesterday (see photo below). The old boy used to work for the EDF and he robbed bits from old jobs to wire this house out . He died (probably electrocuted) and the house is now owned by some nice people from Guernsey. It is all exposed wiring and was three phase. I went yesterday and got it converetd by the EDF to single phase, and the first thing I did was install a 30milliamp RCD as the main incomer, until I can get back to sort it all out and install a proper tableau. [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v464/Etvoila/Electrics/DSCF0025.jpg[/IMG]    

They always look a mess at this stage don't they?  JR - If I had a euro for every time someone had asked me the " how do you know what all those wires do " question, I'd be a rich man. As it happens due to the French system of heavy cotisations, I'm quite poor! Labelling although useful doesn't really matter as all circuits should be verified for continuity anyway.   I also have a very useful cable identifying device that you just plug onto a set of up to ten wires and then at the other end you can idenify them easily. Telecoms workers have had them for years of course. Anyway here's one I did this week - before and after pictures! If these links work that is! [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v464/Etvoila/Electrics/DSCF0015.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v464/Etvoila/Electrics/DSCF0017.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v464/Etvoila/Electrics/DSCF0019.jpg[/IMG]      

They are flexible corrugated pipes for underground building services - the colour depends on the service;  Red is Electricity , Blue is for water, Green for telecoms, Yellow for Gas.  Gaine "TPC" is used for the above services, whereas there are also various other gaines used for drainage and other such uses. Sometimes local authorities put short off -cuts of the above pipes in the ground when new trees are planted so that, when they water them the water gets down to the roots directly. Paul.

Sometimes floors have to be done before other works and not after. I laid a new tongue and groove oak floor for a client last year and as the floors had to be laid before the partitions to get a full run through the building, we protected them by using 3mm plywood sheets . These are easy to cut and lay, give much better protection that dustsheets or plastic. They are also re-useable. Any blobs of ciment or filler than fall on them can be easily scraped off afterwards. I would never trust plastic/paper or dustsheets to protect a finished floor. Paul.  

There are probably around 50 or more prestations that come from the CAF, some are means tested, some are not. Allocation Familiale is not means tested for instance, and is automatic if you have two children or more, have registered with the CAF and have filled out your déclaration de resources for the year.  For instance you get about 119 euros for two children, 271 euros for three, 424 euros for four children and then  another 152 euros extra for each child thereafter. Then there is another 33 euros per child when they reach the age of 11 years old, but this is only payable if you have more than two children.  I could never understand this system which is penalising for families with only one or two children. Allocation Rentrée Scolaire depends on income and number of children, so therefore is means tested. For instance for a family with two children the earnings plafond is currently 21,291 euros so if you have declared over this amount you get nowt. There are also primes for birth, moving home, students, handicaps etc etc., all available from the CAF website www.caf.fr  

I run a building company here in France and My employees work a 39 hour week which is the maximum currently allowed in the construction industry. However as the "boss" I work on average at least 65 hours or more per week, much of which is spent driving, organising and the dreaded administrative side of things. There are no restrictions for the hours works as a patron. In terms of social protection, cotisation charges and general business, I've always thought that self employed people here get a much worse deal than employees- almost the opposite to the UK system. Unless you have a "right hand man" to help you, it is unlikely that you will actually get anything near 50 hours of productive work at this rate in a week. In reality, sourcing your materials, travelling time, opening hours, & French bureaucracy, will all eat into your productive time and if you intend to survive years two, three, and four as an artisan, you will would be best to check your rates and put some aside for the bills which, believe me will arrive fast and furious. Don't forget also that cotisations and charges are continuous, quite often have to be paid by prélèvement automatique, and don't stop when times are lean and you have less or no work. En gros, you can kiss goodbye to around 50% of what you bring in. There is a book my accountant has with hourly rates for trades and I have no idea how they are worked out, but it is very complicated, so please think ahead to the future rather than this one job.   

Another point to remember is that if you are an artisan ( in the building trade)  and subcontracting work from another company, you have to charge the job out to the main contractor at the full 19.6% rate, and not the reduced rate of 5.5%, even if the main scope of works falls under the 5.5% rules. If he has asked you to do some tiling then surely he just wants a fixed price Devis from you? You could give him a Devis either per metre squared, for the job as a whole, or on an hourly basis. If the latter, and if you are a registered artisan paying cotisations, you should not be below 30 euros per hour if you want to survive the future years charges! If you have an accountant, he/she should advise you on what you should be charging per hour, to be cost effective.

It might be worth mentioning that if you do get really stuck at one of these pumps during out of hours opening, you could just wait a while until someone comes to fill up, and then offer them cash to fill your car up. I've done this on several occasions  for Brits who have been caught out on leaving Ouistreham at the Esso garage. But obviously this should be no longer necessary if this garage now takes UK chip and Pin cards.

[quote user="nicktrollope"] Small other point - any heater in a bathroom must be fed from it's own disjoncteur differential, of an appropriate rating - had a bit of a CONSUEL problem with this one. [/quote]   Nick are you sure about this? I am certain that the French regs actually state that "all circuits entering a bathroom should have at least one or several disjoncteur differentielles" . There is absolutely no need to have a seperate DD just for the heater. I have had several Consuels passed like this,a nd have quite a good knowledge of the Regs having owned a copy for several years. In answer to kates other question yes the plates you talk about are fine. They should be preferably situated behind the heater when the heater is installed, as recommended in the Promotelec guide. JR - It is quite common for heater circuits to have one or more heaters attached to it. The regs state for a 2.5mm radial circuit you can have up to 4500watts connected by any combination of heaters, protected by a 20 amp disjoncteur. You can equally have up to 2250watts on a 1.5mm cable run. So in the first instance you could have four 1KW convectors on a single circuit.   Paul.