Martin963

I believe there might be a promo on 11538 MHz V 22000 5/6 on Astra 1. Just off to see.............

As Will says,  fine for SCART connections. As to off air reception,  dig out the manual and see which TV systems it will operate with.   System L will be there (the French system) - you're looking for system I. Most French sets will do B & G,  which get you the pictures on the UK system but not the sound!   Our two French TV's do B/G but not I,  but as Will says many do. If you haven't got the manual try exploring the onscreen menus (if there are any!)  

@ Quillan I see now!   I don't think it is by accident that so many useful features have been excluded from Sky Digiboxes by their manufacturer!   But it is a complete pain that they are designed the way they are....

But Quillan presumably you can't get C4 and C5 or any Sky subscription service on your "French digital box" (I assume we're talking satellite box here). Or am I missing your point?

It is extremely confusing in terms of terminology. Free to air - no encryption whatsoever   (Freeview DTT in the UK,  BBC & ITV services on satellite,  analogue terrestrial TV (apart from Canal +) Free to view - encryption applied but a one off payment card can be obtained (C4 and C5 on satellite).   This willl also shortly apply to the duplication of the TNT French channels on satellite to illuminate all the hexagone - a card will be available but the channels will appear encrypted on a FTA satellite receiver.   Youo'll need a receiver capable of decoding the encryption used (probably Viaccess) Freeview - the UK DTT service  (excluding top-up-TV which is subscription) Freesatfromsky - the scheme were Mr Murdoch sells you a box and installation (including card for C4 and C5) but there is no ongoing subscription. TNT - the French equivalent of UK DTT,  although Canal + and others are encrypted,  so the comparison is more like UK DTT with top-up-TV thrown in Have I missed any - let me know!

I'm going to get a reputation for nit picking aren't I -  but in fact in this case UK sourced DTT (freeview) boxes designed for terrestrial reception DO work in France for picking up French TV;  the only exception is that many of the original OnDigital boxes won't work, 'cos they can't cope with the French digital symbol system - it's either 2k or 8k they can't do (and I'm ****** if I can remember which without digging out the tech specs). In this particular case it's sensible to buy in France,  but in general if you have a modernish Freeview DTT box in the UK then it is suitable for France (assuming you live in an area that is covered - coverage is not as extensive in France as it is in the UK).   In the Vendee you have a good chance of reception if you are already using the Maisonnay (Niort) or Haute Goulaine (Nantes) transmitters;  however re-reading the maps (hence the edit) I notice that there's an area in mid-Vendée which is not covered. The TNT subscription services planned for France may well use MPEG 4 in which case a UK box wouldn't get them,  but it wouldn't anyway because the encryption system will be different. As Quillan says,  if what you are actually after is British progs then a satellite system is the only way - a Freeview box will only pick up French progs once it's been moved to France. 

Put it much better than I could have - but somewhat like you I have a bog standard dish with a dual o/p LNB.   Works fine. I have never had Sky + but I have a feeling that it relies on being connected to a phone line anyway (not possible to configure correctly in France)?   Or is that sky multiroom....?  

If all is wanted is to watch DVD's then you can take the system to France and it'll be fine.  The problems start when you plug in an aerial and try to watch French TV itself. The reason UK originated TV's don't work in (many parts of) Ireland is because many of them do not cover VHF Band III which is still extensively used in Ireland.   Both countries use system I with PAL colour. France uses system L with SECAM colour.  A lot of anglo saxon sets won't do this but an increasing number do so worth just checking the spec in the manual.   If your set will switch over you might have to do some adjusting in the menus;  but it probably simply will not be possible. If French TV is needed then you can buy in France - as stated above - a cheap colour set.  This will by definition work with system L and you can still  plug the existing DVD player in using the SCART connectors between both machines - this connection obviates the system problems, and ALL French TV's nowadays cope with PAL colour as well as the SECAM in use for analogue TV broadcasts.  

What does the signal quality read (services ->  system set up -> signal quality...   ?

@ Will - Well I think that cooperbola and I (particularly the former) have been shining examples of how forums should work.  We have both modified our posts (borders on the rewriting of history!),  we have avoided a slanging match,  and those who read the thread may have learnt something. I think some of the contributors to the Post Bag on this forum could learn a lot from the civilised behaviour exhibited in the TV/Sat section!   I hope that doesn't sound complacent but I hardly look at the Post Bag now because so often a sensible topic descends into farce and insult - but you all know that anyway. Cooperbola - I salute!

Thanks cooperlola.   I'm always aware that disagreements on a forum can quickly escalate into full scale war and I therefore try and be subtle;  after all I've loused up on many occasions!   Thanks for your understanding. Most of my "criticisms" of plasma/LCD's actually arise from watching them reproducing broadcast signals,  and I would be the first to concede that on really high quality input material (such as the shops tend to display on them!) the results can be much much better.  Most of them are set up/optimised for a higher resolution than what is broadcast and inevitably it's not therefore a happy union when they are used in this way. So I imagine that on good DVD film material things are not as bad as I am suggesting.

Assuming you have a working aerial (preferably on the roof) then just go out and buy a cheap French TV in any supermarket.  Getting one with teletext is a good idea as you can switch on the sub titles and follow the languauge that way - that's how la direction re-learnt her French a few years ago. You'll get the three main channels,  possibly two more,  and the analogue transmissions will go on until at least 2011. As any TV bought now in France will have a Scart socket included you will (later) be able to plug other equipment in - such as a satellite box for British TV. All done for about €100,  which is the same price I paid for a b/w portable in 1978 when £60 was worth a lot more than it is now....

Paul - thank goodness for an ally in all this.   As you say,  many people have simply got used to the offerings from all these expensive gadgets.  Same applies to the lamentable quality of sound on certain modern gizmos. I'm about to start a battle royal with the BBC over the modifications they have recently made to the line up of Radio 4 DSat (and DTT and DAB).   They've upp'd the level by about 10 dB and are - it seems - relying on the network protection limiter to hold levels back to 0 dB.   As a result the background FX on the Archers now go up and down like a yo yo,  and many fully peaked programmes have taken on the harshness that drove me away from FM in the first place. At the moment it's subtle but it's likely to get worse and worse,  as it did 20 years ago on Radios 1 & 2 which from a technical point of view are unlistenable to.   Many of us thought that the message had got through to the BBC that DSat should not be processed but it seems after 7 years of sounding lovely the Philistines have moved in. So you think YOU'RE a Luddite!! EJC - You will be fine if you use the SCART connector to link the sky box to the TV.   All French TV's accept PAL or SECAM,  unlike UK TV's which often do not accept SECAM.  You may well be fine using an aerial flylead connector (RF socket on the sky box) but SCART is a safer bet as some French TV's do not like system I (the UK TV standard) which is what is used for that hook up by Sky boxes.

@ Jc The reason why I won't touch either LCD or plasma (apart from the cost!) is that I've never seen one that I could actually live with in terms of picture quality.   All seem to exagerate any digital artefacts present on the incoming signal (which in the UK is a constant source of irritation,  the BBC should be ashamed of their digital picture quality at times!) and some even manage to make good analogue pics look bad. Plasma has the added problem that the individual cells have a habit of burning out,  particularly if the set has ever been turned on its front  (how many people carry them home from the shops flat in the back of their cars??). But each to their own.  LCD pics look very flat and lifeless to me (albeit brightly coloured) and the aspect ratio rarely seems to be set right,  although that's often down to individual finger trouble. I'll be with CRT's for a while yet,  along with a lot of other people if the technical discussion forums are anything to go by,  but as I say it's all a matter of taste and budget. 

Be careful about which DVD recorder you get if you are going to use it for standards conversion. For example the Panasonic range of DVD recorders sold in the UK are NOT suitable for recording or watching French analogue TV broadcasts (which is what this thread was asking about in the first place).  That's probably why I've never seen them on sale in France in spite of the fact they are excellent machines.   Their tuners (UHF only in this case) will not cope with system L or SECAM colour.   Whilst you could take one of these Panasonics to France and record with a Scart lead from a Sky Digibox,  a TNT tuner, or a digital FTA satellite box,  you would NOT get anywhere (in colour) if you hooked it up to an analogue sat box tuned to the French channels on Atlantic Bird 3  (even with Scart leads),  or a UHF (or VHF) aerial on the roof.  In this latter context you would not even get a picture in black and white. I apologise for nit picking but people might get into difficulties with some DVD recorders brought over from the UK.when they use the gear in France,  which is after all what this forum is about.  

@ Graham & Brenda Provided you are in a TNT served area (check the website http://www.tdf.fr/tnt-cartes-couverture/) then you should be able to use both boxes.  It is a LOT easier if your TV has two SCART inputs because you can plug one box to each.  But if not you should be able to daisy chain them;  generally the one "furthest away" from the TV takes control,  so to watch the nearer one you need to switch off the further one.   Personally I find the purchase of a selector box a more reliable way of doing it - they are about €20 in the grandes surfaces - and allow you to plug in a recorder as well so that you can watch one box while recording another if you get the right selector.   But check your TNT reception -  TNT doesn't get out of bed unless a) there is a service and b) your existing picture (from the same main station,  not some relay) is pretty good. @ nephilim - well I'm not going to put my head on the block but the Philips range of DVD recorders DOES convert SECAM to PAL.   When I was in the same situation I asked at Carrefour and was told I could bring it back within seven days for a full refund - no questions asked.   But check the exact situation - I tried to take back a modem which never worked properly after six weeks (we'd had to go back to the UK in the meantime to - amongst other things - get one that did,  and I had a terrible job to get a refund. But to be honest it would be cheaper to get a French cathode ray TV......?  (and better picture quality than all these LCD/plasma jobs). Shame the two Philips DVD recorders I have have such rubbish software on them - a well known criticism of them. As to what you should buy - satellite FTA or DVD recorder or simple French system L SECAM TV - it all depends on your budget and tastes - I'm only sorry that it is all so complicated.

I think Mazan might still look occasionally,  but as I understand it he objected to a revision of this forum's rules,  something to do with advertising,  and "withdrew". I think we all miss his expertise,  although it has to be said that he occasionally seemed to argue on minor technicalities to the point of absurdity. And if that doesn't get him to contribute now I think we can assume he's not even "lurking". If you ARE looking Mazan we'd all like you back

Spot on,  I'm not even going to get my toes wet! VCR's very rarely handle anything other than composite signals (which they leave in the same colour format) -  although there was someone on here a few years back who had a fancy one that did either transcode SECAM to PAL or regenerate RGB components. A French DVD recorder will almost certainly do it (certainly the Philips range do), but I was interested in the comment that a combined VCR/DVD player does too.   I hadn't thought of that.   I seem to remember Mazan saying a long time ago that the DVD spec (even though it concerns itself with MPEG and the like) does in some way rule out SECAM so whilst you wouldn't think that at €99 they could afford to convert SECAM to RGB it seems that the model mentioned above actually does.  Very interesting.

In theory by the end of the year.  But as there has been no official announcement I wouldn't count on it.   My info comes from Telesatellite Numerique magazine - they normally have their facts right,  but they are saying that the official date will be missed. The whole thing is being pushed by the government on the basis that it hardly is "egale" to have only part of France covered by free to view/air digital transmissions;  TF1 and M6 are resisting to their last breath,  but as their main commercial golden goose has now been swallowed up by the competitor (TPS being taken over by Canalsatellite) there seems little point in their fighting on. A card system will be very useful for those of us who have an address in France but will take the card straight back to the UK!! 

I should have said - you could try a TNT box direct off your roof aerial;  this will output RGB via a Scart which would suit your UK TV.   However,  you need to be in a TNT area - not all of France is covered yet.   So don't buy until you are sure.   See http://www.espace-numerique.fr/?current=5022 The FTA public channels will probably go "invisible" on AB3 digital when the final TNT multiplex is activated (R5).  The operators have hired 3 transponders on AB3 for distribution of the TNT feed signals to the tx network.   They are using Newtech encoders and decoders which are capable - using a fast symbol rate - of cramming twice the number of channels onto a transponder than using conventional MPEG2.   This saves on costs with no loss of quality.  At the moment five TNT multiplexes are running,  so four are Newtech'd onto 2 transponders,  and the last (carrying France TV 2,3,5,Parl,Arte) is by itself on the third,  using MPEG2.   When the sixth multiplex gets going we will probably lose this "feed". At that point the new card free to view system should be up and running. But there - you really didn't want to know did you...........?!

The video to TV via Scart method rarely works,  although you can try. However,  if you insert certain DVD recorders in the signal path you should (repeat should) get colour as a lot of them (certainly the Philips range) transcode SECAM to PAL.  Again,  use the DVD recorder (bought in France of course,  not the UK) as your "tuner" instead of the video,  and then link to the TV via SCART.   Do check before buying that you can return the item if it doesn't do the job. There are plans for a satellite "relay" of all the TNT (digital terrestrial TV) channels to bring these programmes to the parts of France that cannot (yet) receive them via UHF transmissions.   There will be a one off payment for a card (thought to be €20 or thereabouts) and "promotional" prices for a suitable box.   It is likely that these broadcasts will be on Atlantic Bird 3,  5 deg west,  and scrambled with Viacess.   You will need a French address as the cards will not be sold outside the hexagon.   With a suitable box you would get colour on your UK TV,  particularly if you use the Scart lead. A Sky box is not suitable,  but as a stop gap you can buy a cheap free to air digital satellite box and set it up on AB3.  This will - for the moment - get you the public service TV channels (2,3,5,Arte, Parl).  However,  a FTA box will not be any good for the up and coming TNT relay service mentioned above,  so don't fork out unless you are desperate.   The transmissions of these public service channels may well only be for the next year or so,  and will then disappear due to a technical quirk too complicated to explain here!

My Pace was totally locked up this morning;  I suspect Sky have done a software download which may have failed.... Unplugging and replugging sorted it - possibly because the old software on its EEPROM kicked back into action. But that's pure speculation on my part

At present (AFAIK) HD broadcasts for France are taking place on a couple of channels on each of the satellite bouquet operators.  You need an additional subscription, a special (rent only) proprietary box,  and the choice is very limited. It is unlikely that terrestrial will have the bandwidth required for HD,  at least not for a while and only for a very few channels. Personally I'd bring your Philips over as - as you say - it should work in France.  To be sure you should check that it tunes system L (system I is in use in the UK).   This is even more important than colour compatibility - a SECAM set that does not tune L will NOT work in France;  but most modern Philips are OK. There is an emerging problem witb so called HD Ready TV's in that some of them will NOT work with the French satellite HD boxes - all to do with digital outputs and film copying/piracy problems.   Personally I still prefer the quality of a good old CRT,  and if you look in the technical forums there are many folk of the same opinion.   If you can bear to wait then I would,

Not the best time to reply (after a couple of beers) but what happens if you run a coax lead from RF1 to the JVC TV,  then push the TV button on the remote (or put the Sky box in standby)? What I suspect is happening is that the Sky box is gaining control of the TV via the SCART lead when it's turned on.   If you can get the TV back to RF mode (rather than AV) as outlined above you should then be able to ask it to do a UHF channel scan. But you may find that if it doesn't "do" system L it won't admit to finding anything (mainly because the sync pulses on French TV are the "wrong way up".  

Well it should in fact be said that it's  nearly always the same technology as far as the LNB is concerned.  But beware,  some older French LNB's are called "Telecom Band" - and if that is what you have got then it may cause you problems as the Intermediate frequency used is different to the two freqs used on "universal" LNB's. At the moment you can get French public TV (ie France 2 3 4 5 Parliament Arte) digitally on Atlantic Bird 3 at 5 deg west.   This however is in all probability a temporary arrangement.   The public channels are scrambled on Hotbird and Astra 1 - an intolerable situation when compared to the BBC being free to air.  However.... You really need to find out what your dish is pointing at at the moment.  It may well be on AB3, as in rural areas this sat is often used in analogue mode for picking up France 5/M6 where coverage from the terrestial network is poor.   If that's were your dish is pointing (just west of due south) then a cheapo analogue box will get you the five main channels,  although you may find a UK TV displays them in black and white.  A French TV will be fine. By the end of the year it should be possible to buy a card and box (reputedly for €60 ish) that will get you all the digital terrestrial channels - via digital satellite - and this will also probably be via AB3.   It's a one off payment.   So maybe you could wait until then if there's any doubt.....