Poolguy

[quote user="Me0wp00"]Even with solar you'd still need a back up source and for me mains gas would win hands down, solar's are great for hot water but we've found during the winter don't provide sufficient heat to heat a well insulated 80m2 underfloor system. Our system is now about 5 years old. We're now into our second renovation project 288m2 and even though we're going underfloor for the downstairs we're definitely not going solar. [/quote]   I am surprised that you have such negative views on the efficacy of benefiting from your share of the free energy available to us all. Could you tell me how many tubes you have on the roof and how big your accumulator is and most important where in France is your installation. It is sure though that no matter how large is your system that a backup of some sort is necessary for a few weeks of the year. I have been getting good temps in the 30°'s  right throughout Jan and Feb which is ample for UF use, our radiators do need a bit of help but at this stage Feb it seems that they run well on the energy we've stored. I am in Dept 17 though and enjoy a high sunshine index. Andrew  

[quote user="mark and sue 71"] hi andrew it will be powered by  a gas boiler, solar to expensive [/quote]   Seems strange to me as gas is (unless its Town gas) the most expensive fuel at the moment. Can I as what do you know about the use of solar for this application, as compared to gas I cannot see how it can be regarded as too expensive. Regards Andrew

[quote user="mark and sue 71"] can anyone recommend a company that can supply water underfloor heating our house is in 71 burgundy many thanks mark and sue [/quote]   Hi Can you describe how you intend to power the underfloor system.... would you consider a solar powered system for example. There are many option to choose from, I'm just looking for some clues so that I can give you some pointers. Andrew

I have a number of Companies who install the Autodosing chlorine an pH control in much the same way as swimming pools. It does not mean however that all that has been discussed above is illiminated but it is certainly reduced to a bear minimum, and the information provided by the machine is electronic accurate (1ppbillion). These companies are very happy with the results as the clients get a sanitised tub all the time, ready to plunge. They are largely for rental properties there by assuring the water quality and test by DDASS. SO easier solutions exist but naturally you'll need to add a bit extra to the budget to allow for the automation. Andrew

Really nice Job.   Don't suppose you've come across a version that uses wood chip have you? and a back boiler just for good measure? that looks nice as these do to fit into the salon. Andrew  

JohnROss Chris N Julie   You have made your choice and really I don’t really care what you do, as there is nothing I can say or do to change it, so I do not try.   Generally, I post in the third person (mostly), I’ve done that for nearly 5 years so that Newbies to the forum and to pools can get some information rather than the drivel that is thrown at them from all corners to help them make their decisions, hopefully good one’s. I do that graciously and freely and I find that occasionally some people do want to learn more and then turn into clients. But it is absolutely certain than the vast majority of people who have benefited from my advise over the years have never bought a thing of me. So, If I was a really smart business man then I should certainly stop posting on this forum, because it is not commercially fruitful, but that is NOT WHAT ITS FOR and that’s not why I do it.   To the matter at hand- that of waist water. The Law I am referring to is a European Directive, which is clear an unequivocal, however the Member states interpret it as they want and France’s as you see is some what ‘watered down’ from the original. That does not change the Original Directive, and by the way I did not invent it, write it nor am I on a crusade to enforce it. I have pointed out its existence, that’ll do. If you care at all and what to know more then I suggest that you do your own research and in doing so perhaps you might come across the research on the effects of salination, including Road salting, swimming pools backwash, industrial outwash and the general advance of the deserts worldwide.   Certainly, I don’t see the point of citing Public Policy from the US as examples of anything as its general knowledge that the framework of policy is for sale to the highest bidder in that country. It takes a lot to be the biggest polluter on earth for 2 decades running, thanks to a succession of Administrations whose sympathies lie with the ‘Have’s and the Have More’s(ed G. W Bush  2003)   You don’t like my advise OK not everybody does, but I don’t care. I’ll continue to give it so long as there are some people who do like it. They email me quite a lot and say ‘ thanks’ or ‘keep up the good work’, one person wrote to say ‘ you’ve saved me a fortune’. That was nice.   My dear Colleague Teapot has made the case well so I’ll leave that with you, and please carry on as you like, your choice suits you but destroys the land around you for ever more…. So enjoy it…. I     don’t    care.   Andrew

[quote user="JohnRoss"] I would be grateful if you could provide a link to read this law. Pool water needs to be discharged somewhere. If what you say is the case then the water will have to be discharged and retained within the property. The level of salt of 3000 parts per million is very weak,  less than that of human tears 4000 to 8000ppm, about a twelfth or less of sea water I understand. Rain dilutes this level further but if a discharge into the ground is verboten then I suppose you could retain it in a shallow open pond and collect the salt once the water has evaporated. I would have thought that non salt pools would also be a hazard on discharge because of the added chemicals that salt pools don't need! What does the law say about this? The problem is that it is mostly only in winter that pumping out a small percentage of pool water is needed because of rain. Storing a few thousand litres of water until warmer weather might be a problem for some. One could, I suppose if push comes to shove, turn off the Chlorinator cell and add chlorine tablets having replaced the water. We could, of course, go over to a UV system or some such. It would seem that this law is about as sensible as the one about pool alarms and/or fences, alright in theory but not that practical or effective as other countries have proved! I understand that you don't sell or like salt water pools but there are lots of firms in France that do. Have the authorities expressed negative thoughts about salt water pools towards these firms. This would be the simplest way of enforcing such a law!...............JR PS Like your video about solar heating, must be a good money spinner!   [/quote] JohnROss You have 3000ppm in your pool, so if you backwash once a week as you should, then after 10 weeks you have expelled the same level of salt as putting sea water on your garden. So the level you have is detrimental to the environment, that it  - please accept that fact and stop trying to make excuses by bringing in irrelevancies, like tears and enforcement and the like, none of that matters. You have made a choice, albeit a bad one in my eyes, but why should you care about that. What matters and the only thing that is important is that you should now modify your practices to take account of your situation. So your backwash water should indeed go into a lined pond where it cannot be absorbed into the soil and there in evaporate so that the salt can be gathered and disposed of (in the sea, or back into your pool). If you are waiting for someone to FORCE you to do it then you'll wait a long time as the Authorities have many more delinquent polluters to catch before they get to you or any other salt pool owner, or the industry as a whole for that matter. The environment has never been high on the agenda in France, but this is stuff that exemplar countries like Australia, Israel and certainly Scandinavian member states would be vitally concerned about. But here, .... BOUF!!! SO you can join them (boufe... shruugg) and never care less and blame everyone else for the consequence or you can be part of the solution and care a little bit, by saving the salt that you love so much and reusing it instead of aiming for the nearest stream. Our generation has for along time been used to doing whatsoever we liked for our own comfort and pleasure without a careless of the consequence. It comes as no surprise to me that the climate seems to be on the attack and a lot of other natural phenomena are arriving at a suspiciously intense way a little too frequently. Do you get the feeling that these might be connected somehow??? Andrew PS yes thank you, the Solar heating workes very well.

John Ross as well as ChrisN Julie are breaking the law. That is the European directive on expelling polluted water into the environment and if anyone in the Government cared enough to investigate it then those guilty ones would certainly be fined. You may not just expel your highly salinated water onto the land or into a drain or wherever, for it will certainly result in the poisoning of the soil in its wake and kill every living thing eventually. The levels are not low they are 3000ppm or more and plants will tolerate no more than about 1000ppm for short periods with a fresh water flush afterwards. So get informed on this you are NOT doing a responsible thing and it is a shame. Really, it ridiculous and scandalous that marketers can peddle such drivel that salt systems are 'ECO-Friendly' because the truth is the contrary, its just such a shame that unwitting customers ignorant of the consequences are sucked into this vandalism- turning precious potable water into saline and then spreading it on the land any where they feel like it. Makes one long for the return of the Water Police like there was 3 years ago. Andrew  

Nonsence

If you email me your email address then I'll send you a Technical comparison between AFM and Zeolite. For the record, AFM is not more ecological its much, much less, as there is significant energy consumed in manufactuing AFM and Zeolite is a natually occuring mineral which is simply crushed. They two are not the same in any way, as one of the unique properties of Zeolite that of absorbtion of ammonia and therefore inhibition of chloromines is not at all enjoyed by AFM - so for the price and the performance, its ZEL EAU all the way. If you want an integrated solution for the whole Local technique and solar system then PM me as we are speciailists for that.   Good luck Andrew  

Yes The Oz had the knack of doing 'stuff' just because its interesting, not necessarily necessary. I've had a lifetime of that. I don't think that there is anyone who would argue that the use of chlorine should be reduced but really, swimming pools are the minutest blip in the overall scheme, the paper and textile industry account for nearly 85% of it. If you can find a viable alternative to chlorine that then might mean something, but otherwise, I cannot see the point. You know very well what are the health consequence to inadequate sanitisation and to the accumulation of heavy metals by absorbtion - its not pretty, and certainly it does not help the promotion of that technology. I'm doing my alternative stuff, and when its ready then perhpas I'll be like you but untill then I'll be like me and that's OK. Salute Andrew

Well no real reason other than it will decrease your filtration rate and I would guess that it might already be fairly feable. You should have 3 hours to circulate all of your water? So if you have a 10 x 5 pool @ 75m3 then you will need a 25m3/hr pump or some like a 1.5 - 2cv and filter to match. If your moving it all then you should take advantage and change the sand to Zeolite as the measures you are taking to heat the pool will increace the tendancy for microbiological activity, so you should take extra precautions in Filtration and sanitisation to compensate. I presume that you will be using evacuated tube panels to heat the pool and so the pressure circuit needs to be short as possible, like wise the circuit of pool water but you do not have that luxuary, you are adding 10 meter whihc means that there will be 20 meters of ground to heat up before the pool gets a look in. So Bury the pipes at least 60cm but more if you can and insulate them very well with foam or some form of non crushable insulation. You will need to insulate the pool as 80% of the heat in the water will be lost from the surface to the night sky. (bubbly style covers are NOT sufficient, you will need a thick foam or PVC floating cover or both at the least.) There are many more suggestion I can offer but you'll have to send me your details by PM so that I can see what it is you are going to do. Andrew    

Oh my dear Teapot   Rib, Rib Rib RIb Rib RIb!!!!! Why on earth........? Andrew

[quote user="ty-gwenn"] Thanks Poolguy - that's as useful an answer as I've seen to date.  Given human nature, offering a 'free' lotion could be the most likely option to reduce risk.  Given your own research, would it be a fair assumption that any colourless or white pigmented sun lotion would minimise the problem? Whilst on the subject of water line marks - and again, in order to have a product to hand in case the problem arises - what would you recommend for the cleaning of  general dirt/scum or dark (algae?) marks?  Some long time ago - on another thread - I think you offered Aqua Clean as a succesful product but I have not been able to trace it; is it still your preferred option? [/quote] Ty-gwenn I can help you with both of the products you want if you care to PM/email me. Aqua clean is good for the black fungus and natural oils but cosmetics only laugh at it. I will be importing Factor 60 Block made for the Skin Cancer Council in Australia, as itcomes in a 1,2 and 5 litre pump pack and it does the business, no question, without leaving the mess. That shoudl be available before the season gets started. Only problem is qute often 'the ladies' want to tan and so they want to use these tan promoters which are heavy in pigment...... they may not accept to use the 'total block' supplied. But its a start, at least if you have provided something and they refuse to use it and still ruin you liner then you can have a go at compensation. The 'after the horse has bolted' solution has to be the Ceramic liner freise, because you can scrub that as you like without damage and the scum should not get behind it to attack the liner. I've offered this solution for 3 years now but not many seem to want it. Seems to me its cheaper to invest in this or the 'free lotion idea' early, than it is to have to buy a new liner later!!!!!! nes pas! Just a thought, contactme if oyu need help.   Andrew  

I've tried to find the right stuff to 'magic' the problem away. The Cosmetic companies has categorically refused to discuss the problem and let me know what it is that is causing the grief for pool owners, their commercial confidentialities are at stake apparently. I've already stated that I can reduce the stain but not eliminate it from PVC most probably for the reasons elaborated by Dave. But the solvent is very nasty and should not be brought anywhere near a pool water. My solution 1.Ceramic frieze which protects the water line from the inevitable scum from the lotions. 2. SUPPLY A LOTION TO YOUR GUEST THAT DOES NOT CAUSE THE PROBLEM 3. Or as a last resort, a sacrificial stick on around the waterline that absorbs the contaminants and then you replace after each tenant leaves. I hope that this helps a little, but suffice it to say that a liner with the stain is a gonner, i cannot be cleaned completely and more over, successive treatment cleaning will only serve to make the material more absorbent and therefore a spiral downwards. Andrew   

Yes good ole ' dark grey'.... Fungus .... that's for sure. We've got just the stuff, ... one squirt...... wait a minute.......wipe it off (with a sponge) Lovely job. Send me a pic and i'll be able to know better. Andrew   Ceramic freize fits into a rail which is hung on the liner fixing rail under the margelles.... no bother!

Hi Stan   I'vesent you an email. Welcome to he Forum and hope that your pool is enjoyable and manageable during the coming season. Andrew

Our thanks to all those who came to visit us At Living France Show Earls Court over the Weekend- a very successful show and great fun, (especially the Can-Can dancers). We are back at work again and look forward to serving you again in 2009. Hope that you all had rollicking New Year and did not suffer too much from the big Freeze. Regards Poolguy  

[quote user="Northender"] Hi I have tried a couple of proprietry cleaners (gel) to try and clean the liner above the water line , but they don't seem strong enough. I am reluctant to try a stronger household cleaner for fear of damaging the finish. Anybody out there with any ideas.The liner is 4/5 years old. [/quote] My Colleague Teapot is asking for the colour as it will identify the stain. If it’s black then it’s a fungus base and I have a gel cleaner for you, which is biodegradable and will not harm your water quality. If it’s yellow then it’s most likely suntan cream and the solution to that is not pleasant, but cannot be done by a private owner. Its perhaps better to consider a Ceramic frieze to cover it up. If there are other colours involved then we have to deal with them in order..... if its tartan colour then immediately stop playing the bagpipes and drinking whisky as you have an outbreak of ‘gallopingscottssyndrome’, which should be of great concern, and treated without delay. Happy Hogmanay ta ale. Andrew

[quote user="michlyntyres"]We live in Spain and a desjoyaux pool was already installed in the property.  I would imagine it is quite an old pool, no Roman steps for a start just a ladder.  My problems are as follows, the plastic band which secures the filter bag is broken, superglued it twice now because although I have emailed Desjoyaux 4 times now I haven´t received a reply.  Another problem is purple dust and staining.  I have shock treated the water and vacuumed after each shock and although the majority of the staining has gone there is still small amount of staining on the filter box.  I am now waiting for the chlorine level to drop sufficiently so that I can pump a third of the water onto the garden as I don´t want to kill the grass or plants.  Does anyone know how to remove the purple staining permanently and also how to I get Desjoyaux to respond to my requests for spare parts or servicing.[/quote] Hi Michlyntyres (cool name) If I can offer you another (perhaps unwelcome) piece of advise, Give up on Desjoyaux - they will never answer you, they just don't care!!! You can use your energies and monies better by removing the troublesome filter unit in favour of a system that does the job, and then the problem is gone forever. The pool you have is unfortunately, a 'cot case'. I haven’t seen yours but I've seen hundreds just like and they are all absolutely hopeless case - a pit of misery and despair. There is no way to get that idea (their filter unit) to work up to international standards of water quality no matter what the publicity tells you, it will just never get there. Its especially problematic (as you have discovered) in a hot climate. They don't exist in Australia for example, because they would never pass the norms. I can help you to change it if you want but it’s a significant piece of work - but it is worth doing that is, if you want a nice pool. PM me and I'll be in touch. Andrew

Osie You don't have to buy the leak detection machine..... I've already done that bit. Leak detection is just a matter of time on site and travelling costs. Can't heal about the weather, its cold everywhere...... snowing on me at present.   Andrew    

Message to all you Home Rennovation people You all my or may not know by no that there is a rather fantastic Expo on each year at this time run by our host Living France. So naturally its called the LIVING FRANCE EXPO 2009 at the Earls Court Exhibition Centre, London starting on the 9 till 11 Jan. We'll be there on stand number P230 to answer all your queries about Solar systems and to suggest Solar improvements to your Home heating for the coming year, so come on in and sample the great cooking in the lifestyle section, or wander in to the Property part and say Hi to us. Its good to meet the people that we converse with over the Forum throughout the year; - put a face to the avatar (so to speak). Even if you don't have a House in France, or will be looking next year come and see us anyway. Good luck and prosperous 2009 to all Andrew

Message to all you Pool people You all my or may not know by no that there is a rather fantastic Expo on each year at this time run by our host Living France. So naturally its called the LIVING FRANCE EXPO 2009 at the Earls Court Exhibition Centre, London starting on the 9 till 11 Jan. We'll be there on stand number P230 to answer all you queries and to suggest pool improvements for the coming season, so come on in and sample the great cooking in the lifestyle section, or wander in to the Property part and say Hi to us. Its good to meet the people that we converse with over the Forum throughout the year; - put a face to the avatar (so to speak). Even if you don't have a pool, or will be looking next year come and see us anyway. Good luck and prosperous 2009 to all Andrew

Osie I was assuming that you had already done a 'bucket test', to establish definatively that there was a leak. Once that is established then you have the choice to try to search for the leak using investigative techniques or you can do the same job in a fraction of the time elecrostatically. The readings that are given are quite accurate and conclusive, for detection of the site of the leak. You can read more here http://www.leaktools.com/products/vinyl_detector/ This is a very expensive tool but it worth it weight and will save alot of heart ache, if you want to take advantage of that then you'll need to send me your contact details by PM. Andrew

Osie   If you send me your details then I can offer you an electrostatic leak detection to find the site of the leak. Its very accurate but it takes time to scan the pool. Once we know where and what it is then a remidie can be devised. I can also pressure test the pipes if that is the site of the problem. But you'll need to have water in the pool for this to take place. Andrew