Healthcare options for young couple?

[tinabee]

The simplest way to solve your healthcare cover problem would be to register as an Autoentrepreneur for your artisan business. There are no minimum turnover requirements for getting healthcare cover, so it would be the quickest option. AFAIK you would register for healthcare with RAM. Their website is LARAM.FR which will have all the details.

The other simple method is to get a temporary job, which pays enough to get healthcare cover as an employee. You would need to earn 60 x minimum wage (SMIC) within one month or 120 x SMIC within 3 months to qualify. But as you can see, you can only register for healthcare at CPAM once you have earned enough and can prove it with payslips. Have a look on the AMELI.FR website for the details.

Whichever method you use to get cover, you will then need to register your wife as a dependent (ayant droit) in order for her to be covered on your insurance.

[Patf]

Idun wrote earlier that this forum used to be full of "rose coloured spectacles " ideas about moving to France, and I agree. But I think perhaps we've gone too far the other way now.

Young people like the OP are very resilient and one of the best ways to learn in life is by making mistakes/ misjudgements. They made a very sensible decision to rent first.

 I hope they follow some of the good advice offered here and decide to stay. And that their baby is born safely, one way or another.

[mint]

[quote user="Chancer"]

 

Now the OP could and probably should use that option in the short term despite being condemned by people who in all probability did that themselves or would have done had they not benefitted from an S1, I cannot see the difference, in both cases the UK pay, however I would be a little nervous about using an EHIC for a birth overseas unless the OP is a "minority" where it seems its fine to do so.

[/quote]

Chance, I take great objection to your suggestion that the S1 is somehow given to some people who could then benefit from it.

I hope it has not escaped your notice that we have WORKED for the S1.  In OH's case till he was 76 (no one forced him to work but he loved his work and we were not dependent on the money).  Admittedly, you don't pay NI insurance after official retirement age but we put in the years and we paid upfront, as it were.

And again, no, I would not in "all probability" have used the option you outlined.  If we couldn't have health care, we would not have come and I did look at health care in all the different countries we might have moved to.

Some people are happier to "take a punt" as you have yourself put it.  Others like to play by the board.  Please do not assume that we would in "all probability" have bent rules to suit ourselves.

I can think of at least 2 people on the forum who put off their planned retirement in order to put aside enough for a rainy day fund and be sure of access to health care. 

[Chancer]

Sorry Mint, perhaps I should have written "some people", cant see what is wrong in using the term "benefitted from" though, if you have an S1 and use it then you benefit from not having to pay for private healthcare or the CMU cotisations, furthermore it seems that S1 holders also benefit in not paying CSG which a French resident would have to, the French also continue to pay cotisations in their retirement, not doing so is another benefit to pension age S1 holders.

 

Speaking for myself at 44 I wasnt Young but just stupid, i did no research and just came here following my nose for an opportunity, didnt know about forums for a further 18 months during which time I gained practically no knowledge from the people here who had no idea nor from the few Brits i met that were all living outside of the system, one of them started a family and at that point decided to declare the previously black earnings, cost them dearly because AE wasnt an option then.

 

I did not even think about healthcare, knew nothing of S1's which in any case I would not have qualified for, I didnt even have an EHIC, then after 3 months I walked through a plate glass window at Intermarché and it knocked a bit of sense into me, I was too scared to go to hospital for what it may cost me.

[mint]

OK, Chance, apology accepted.  I guess I have preconceived notions of the meaning of the word "benefit" no doubt fueled by reading the Daily Wail[:-))]

Mind you, I also hate it when the pensions people write to us calling our pension a "benefit" and you are right in that the word itself is impartial and even implies something good.

It's a word that has been bandied about so much in the public sphere that, for me, it's come to mean something that is given to you and not something you have earned.

Back to the OP, I do think that he has now received all the answers to make his own decision on how he will go about sorting out things for the best. 

[idun]

I am disgusted by the EHIC thing you have sited Chancer. Disgusting, absolutely disgusting.

And I called the EHIC people today, because I get sick of this nya nya nya about things.

When any of us leave the UK for a permanent move, then legally we are supposed to hand in the EHIC card, there are a few exceptions to this, including as we all know, handicapped people and pensioners and those working on contracts, however, if someone just ups sticks then they lose their right to an EHIC.

IF some one doesn't and they use it, then they are doing so illegally, could end up with a big bill and possibly prosecuted.

Who would 'play' with their actual private insurance??? no one, because insurance companies as we all know will not put up with it. The government is, at the end of the day, us poor mugs who pay, and when we defraud 'the government' we are really cheating ourselves or maybe just the poor sods that pay (we do)....  and I hate it.

[lindal1000]

Or more likely no one will care. Or..just go back to the Uk and say you are planning to stay for good..get your treatment and change your mind again when you've done. That's perfectly legal.

For what it's worth a neighbours phoned up the DOH overseas bit when they were moving and asked what they should do in the 3 months it would take for them to get into the French health service and they were told to use their EHIC.

[andyh4]

Nick P rote

By the way have you worked out who you can vote for yet ?Stick out tongue [:P]

Unquote

Yes no problem thanks. I took a long weekend in the UK and registered there as a resident and onto the voters list. Can now vote in UK elections for the next 15 years.

Some might consider it fraud, but " it is not fraud it's common sense ". Something it seems I have gained from you.

best regards

[idun]

I'll tell you why I don't try and interpret the rules to suit 'me', because I live in a world where the toast falls beurre side down, and if it can go wrong it will. And I constantly live with the bouse hitting the fan, and sometimes the fan is on low, and sometimes it is on full blast.

And the complication of not doing things right, is something I cannot afford on any level.

For this young couple the greatest concern to me is the baby. That a couple would chance their luck is quite a different thing.

[Chancer]

Here is the article regarding non UK people "benefitting" from the EHIC:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3191557/Foreigners-charge-NHS-care-country-Loophole-lets-thousands-migrants-free-treatment-card-GP.html

 

Here is what I dont get, I posted the abpve either on this or another French forum whn nit was published and I dont even think there were any replies, yet when there is  no more than a suggestion that a newly arrived UK couple might use an EHIC in France (not that they made any mention of it) there is an outpouring of outrage, accusations of fraud etc.

 

Lets say that when push comes to shove they only have two choices, be treated in France via the EHIC or return to the UK for the birth, does it really make any difference?  The bill will be picked up by the same people in either case, the vast majority of hip replacements carried out at the specialist unit at Abbeville are patients sent over by the NHS because it is cheaper, faster and they recover quicker.

[NickP]

Nick P rote

By the way have you worked out who you can vote for yet ?Stick out

tongue <img

src="/forums/completefrance-forums/cs/images/emotions/tongue.gif"

alt="Stick out tongue [:P]" />

Unquote

Yes no problem thanks. I took a long weekend in the UK and

registered there as a resident and onto the voters list. Can now vote

in UK elections for the next 15 years.

Some might consider it fraud, but " it is not fraud it's common sense ". Something it seems I have gained from you.

best regards

Dream on sunshine you haven't got the brains to work that out let alone achieve it. Shame you still haven't learned how to post without all the  hieroglyphics.

[nomoss]

It seems as if the OP has left. Perhaps he has found a forum where he gets the answers he wants to hear?

[mint]

[quote user="Chancer"]

Lets say that when push comes to shove they only have two choices, be treated in France via the EHIC or return to the UK for the birth, does it really make any difference?  The bill will be picked up by the same people in either case, the vast majority of hip replacements carried out at the specialist unit at Abbeville are patients sent over by the NHS because it is cheaper, faster and they recover quicker.

[/quote]

OK, Chance, let's leave out for the moment the legality, wisdom, expediency or otherwise of these people using their EHIC card.

Pregnancies traditionally last 40 weeks.  Right, so....Mrs goes to see the doctor say at 12 weeks (in the next fortnight) and uses the card.  The doctor refers the patient to an obstetrician (I am only using my imagination here as I have no knowledge of maternity services in France), card is used again for the hospital or clinic.

They ask for blood samples, take a medical history, do whatever other tests they do (and I am pretty sure there will be at least basic tests to see if the pregnancy is progressing well) card is used for all of these procedures.

Then perhaps no further rdv is offered because the medical personnel are given to understand that the patient is only visiting and will be home in the UK in x number of weeks.

And that's before we talk about any other preparations and the events leading up to the birth itself.  Do they have maternity classes, parenthood sessions, etc in France?  Hey, I don't know these things for sure and neither do you and neither, crucially, does the OP.

Then poor expectant mother (maybe first time mother though we are not told) would not only have all these different appointments to attend without wondering if she is really entitled to them, she will also have to contend with all the questions asked about when she is likely to finish her holiday in France.  How many more times could she whip out that solution to all their health needs, the EHIC?

I really don't think it's on for practical reasons alone.  I wouldn't like to be in the shoes of someone going to have a baby and not even knowing if she can get any medical help and whether she could afford to pay for the services required.

And BTW, Chance, with babies it's usually push rather than shove?

[lindal1000]

That's exactly what my Dutch neighbour did with both of her kids with no apparent ill effects. She just returned to Holland three months before the babies were born. I should say she is now fully registered in the French system.

I think the compulsory pre natal stuff is pretty minimal in the early days in France.

My guess is the OP left because of all the bitching and moralising that was going on. He was asking about access to healthcare and in fact he got that information ..ie he can return to UK for the birth or register as self employed and start his business early or look for employment. I'm pretty sure he didn't ask for opinions as to whether he was doing the right thing or not but that didn't stop people offering them. It's a shame really as I always think these forums would be a lot more interesting with a more mixed age group. I'm a member of a couple of Facebook groups made up of predominantly younger English speaking women living and working in France, and you see a very different perspective from them.

[Cendrillon]

In my experience when you use the EHIC you pay for each consultation and then claim by phoning the Newcastle office when you return to your U K address. how that works if you have no permanent residence in U.K I don't know.

[HoneySuckleDreams]

[quote user="lindal1000"]. I'm a member of a couple of Facebook groups made up of predominantly younger English speaking women living and working in France, and you see a very different perspective from them.[/quote]

which groups? as I would be interested

 

[Chancer]

[quote user="Cendrillon"]In my experience when you use the EHIC you pay for each consultation and then claim by phoning the Newcastle office when you return to your U K address. how that works if you have no permanent residence in U.K I don't know.[/quote]

 

You go to the local CPAM office with the card and the RIB of your French bank, they process it and you are issued with a temporary (5 years is temporary? [8-)]) social securité number starting with 5, with that the memboursements are paid directly to the bank account at the going rate, usually 70%, I had read that those processed in the UK were paid at 100%, they are not supposed to be but given the complexities of the French system its probably more expedient for them to do so than pay what they are supposed to, the equivalent of what a French national would recieve.

 

Often hospitals and ambulance companys once they have confirmed that the person has droits in the system will claim the 70% direct from the CPAM and bill the patient the remaining 30%, pharmacies usually charge the whole amount, the person submits the feuille de soins to the CPAM and remboursement is made within one to two months.

 

A French hospital is not going to ask when are you going home to the UK with your baby or the bump, their over-riding pre-occupation is will they be paid, you can be bleeding to death in an ambulance (been there with only slight exaggeration) and its your carte vitale, mutuelle and:or social securité number that is more important than whether you are flatlining, again slight exaggeration! You will have to get past the accueil administratif before getting any treatment, once that hurdle is jumped its "pass go, collect €200!" if anyone is going to ask the question it should be the NHS footing the bill but would they even notice with the volume of Rumanian and Hungarian births that they are forking out for? 

[Chancer]

Reading from the letter of my next hospital appointment it spells out the procedure.

 

You must first present yourself to the accueil administratif with the following documentation

 

Votre carte vitale ou attestation de sociale securité

Votre carte de mutuelle

Votre justificatif d'identité

Tout document justifiant d'une situation particulière (carnet de soins gratuits, volets d'accident de travail carte européenne etc)

un moyen de paiement. 

[Gardengirl]

[quote user="Cendrillon"]In my experience when you use the EHIC you pay for each consultation and then claim by phoning the Newcastle office when you return to your U K address. how that works if you have no permanent residence in U.K I don't know.[/quote]

If I remember correctly, you must claim from CPAM now, as Newcastle is no longer involved.

[lindal1000]

LIFT (Ladies in France Together) and Ladies in Business in France..the latter is better for factual info and practical help.

[alittlebitfrench]

[quote user="lindal1000"]I'm a member of a couple of Facebook groups made up of predominantly younger English speaking women living and working in France, and you see a very different perspective from them.[/quote]

What is their perspective ? Just out of interest.

In terms of the OP, he got the only answer/option available to him.

[lindal1000]

Well you get a much more positive view. Many are here with kids, running successful businesses and generally well settled and integrated and not always pining for 'home'. Of course there are the same frustrations and difficulties involved in dealing with bureaucracy but there is much less moralising (unless it's to do with animal welfare, when the animal activists show their colours)!

[alittlebitfrench]

'running successful businesses'. Such as ????

In my experience expats tend to live in the same old areas doing the same old. Some make it work some don't.

Not many expats actually move to 'mainstream' France in their twenties and experience life growing up.

Quite a different thing.

[lindal1000]

There are various from hairdressers, estate agents, nurses, teachers. Some have been here many years and some just arrived..most speak good French, some city dwellers and some rural..it's a mixture a..but not just British .I.There are Aussies, kiwis, Canadians and Americans amongst the two groups.

[mint]

[quote user="lindal1000"]Well you get a much more positive view. Many are here with kids, running successful businesses and generally well settled and integrated and not always pining for 'home'. [/quote]

If there are any regular contributors on here pining for "home", they are keeping very quiet about it!

You have said that you aren't and, as I have only been back to the UK once for 10 days over a period of nearly 9 years, I guess I am not pining either[geek]