Price per sq metre for a property renovation in France

[alittlebitfrench]

So you are taking on a house Renovation in France.

We all know renovation with French artisans is expensive. A commonly quoted figure is between 1500-3000 euros per sq metre.

So, some questions...

Take note Draytonboy !!!

1) How do you price the cost of a renovation ?

2) Should you price 'your' time at the same cost of using French artisans if you do the work yourself and deduct that from the asking price ?

[Chancer]

If you want to swallow a fist then you might!

 

If I sell a property for its market value I would not be amenable to someone who has never done anything other than talking a good renovation thinking he can  deduct €60 per hour for his time doing his renovation of what will never be his property.

 

I can tell you to the Euro how much I have spent on my renovation but not my time, have no idea and dont care, even if I were to have known how much it would cost me in materails when I bought I would have recieved said bunch of fives had I told the seller that instead of me paying him €40K he should actually pay me €40K plus another €100/200/300K for my labour [:'(]

[alittlebitfrench]

So you would only do a renovation if you can do the work yourself, add no cost to your time and hope that the price you paid for the property and the cost of the materials spent in its renovation does not exceed its market value ????

Many people can't do everything themselves. Many have to rely on artisans. Doing so will push the cost well over its market price.

So how do you price a renovation ? Do you walk around with a notepad and guesstimate ? The roof will cost that, the electricity will cost this, the floor will cost that etc etc etc.

Or do you do simply put a cost per sq metre like they do in France ?

Personally I would do the latter before making an offer.

[Chancer]

The cost of the renovation is irrelevant, either the property in the condition as seen is worth the asking price or less (in my case more) the cost for M. Toutlemonde to pay M. Arnaqueisan has nothing to do with the price of fish.

 

How did I guesstimate mine, well I said its up for X, surely it wont cost twice that to renovate it, and i was right, it didnt, cost a bit more [:D] In retrospect it was stupid and based on stupid assumptions, that it was up for its true value (it was actually well underpriced) and that the cost of materials not my labour would bear any relation to its sale price i.e. 2*X, stupid stupid.

 

The questions I did ask mysef which was smart were:

 

Do I want to do this? - ABSOLUTELY

 

Do I have enough money to do it? - Yeah of course I do, its only a 2 year project.

 

Now I finished this 2 year project last Saturday in a little over 12 years so my initial money would have long ago run out.

 

And I never even considered the question would the final price exceed its market value, I just asked myself would it be worth 3 times X to me when finished, what its worth to anyone else was and still is irrelevant.

[alittlebitfrench]

But you always said that you will always eventually move on. Chucking 100k down the drain can't be best financial move ever when doing a renovation. Especially if you have your sights set on moving to Eymet and join their local cricket club and British legion. You did say you would move there in a heartbeat !!!!

I can just imagine you around a piano in the British Legion in Eymet with your new expat chums singing 'knees up mother brown' and the 'white cliffs of Dover'. LOL

[Chancer]

Your posting did push me to tidy up my table basse and add up the remaining invoices since my last running total in December.

 

Here are the figures if they are of interest.

 

Building bought as a derelict shell in 2004 for €40000 surface plancher +/- 270m2 inc outbuildings.

 

Totally renovated, reroofed, most outbuildings demolished and rebuilt, I have created 6 fully furnished hi-spec appartements one of which I live in, the other 5 rented plus a 30m2 workshop, cellar, garage, commercial laundry rooms and externally created a 150m2 car park from nothing.

 

My total reciepts are €88K which I will round up to equal €100K to include the EBay and rédérie purchases for which I have no reciepts, and the cash labour which was de minimis, less than €2K.

 

The materials for the last 3 flats starting from a bare internal shell averaged out at €5.5k per flat, that includes all furnishings, cookers fridges microwaves, toasters, kettles coffemakers, 9 beds (4 wallbeds) several sets of bedding, quilts, pillows etc.

 

The return on investment last year was 38%, this year wil be 43%, next year predicted 50% plus. It started paying for itself in May 2014 and will be paid off completely in under 4 years.

 

I dont count my labour, I consider myself privileged to have been able to avoid work and employment during that time.

[Chancer]

Postings overlapped.

 

It has turned out to be by far my best investment ever, just do a little searching for how to value un immeuble de rapport and some number crunching on my figures and you will see that it is worth a fortune as an investment, even more so because the fiscality at a 71% abattement is far more attractive than any of the immeubles de rapport.

 

It is however a gilded cage, if I was an investor with that sort of money I sure would not want to move to this area, there are already a couple of very interested parties but as they are locals the price was as incomprehensible to them as another country not having the BAC [:D]

 

In any case its a new phase of my life which will take time before the novelty wears off, it could be that the Brexit negotiations will help if newcomers must come here with an established and verifiable income.

[cajal]

[quote user="Chancer"]

I would prefer that you or the mods remove that, I dont advertise on forums and whilst I am sure it wasn't your intention it is as good as putting up someones name, address and phone number.

As my post has had a reply (yours) I am unable to delete mine. You could try deleting yours and then I might be able to delete mine.

 

Photo taken a few years back when ony the upper floor was finished but the commune had redone the road and footpaths, once i find out how to blank out the name I would put up some before and after shots.

You should be proud of it.

Where did you find the photo by the way? I think it is one of mine.

t'internet search following what you've posted here over the years.

[/quote]

[Chancer]

Looks like I can still edit but not delete, tried deleting all the text as an edit but didnt work, perhaps the mods can do their stuff.

 

Its no great problem, more a point of principal, anyone so minded as to search for my personal détails would only need to do what you did anyway.

[cajal]

There you go. It appears a mod has done the business.

Whilst making no apologies for posting the image it serves as a lesson as to how easy and how little effort is required to unearth what we hope and think is private and unavailable information on us all.

All it took for me to avail myself to this information was 3 individual 'google' searches, refining the search each time, and bingo there it was. I now know your first name and with a further bit of digging I could quite easily acquire your surname. Armed with your name and address I could very easily obtain your birthdate and ultimately progress to emptying your bank account.

Be aware and always wait a minute or two before pressing that post button and ask yourself "do I really want this information out there?"

[Chancer]

I really dont know how to take that.

[alittlebitfrench]

It is a really nice house that Chancer, you must be dead proud.

I hope though you have installed a neon red light (diagonally) on the side of the building saying 'Chancer's'.

Preferably one with a bulb gone or at least a bulb flickering making a zzz noise.

LOL, I can't decide which letter should go mind

you.

Any suggestions ?

[Chancer]

Maybe do a Fawlty Towers and have Chancres [:P]

 

Given that it was a brothel for all of its trading life it would be quite apt.

 

The building is affectionately known by the old folk as "Chez Zsa-Zsa"

[idun]

Well, I pressed the report button, because NO ONE SHOULD POST ANYTHING about other posters details.

That people are 'clever' enough to find such things, YES, I KNOW TO MY COST ABOUT 'THEM'', is their business.

BUT, do not post such things and if you do, everytime I shall press the report button.

Frankly I am disgusted, not with the actual photo, just with it being posted.

hope this thread is now blocked!

[Chancer]

I have not seen a report button for a very long time, where is it?

 

I am still really confused by the last posting, saying they make no apology and going on to tell others who will have already seen my business name just what they need to do to empty my bank account, am I supposed to be intimidated? I'm sure many people would be if I posted a photo of their house, a business name to identify them, said that I knew their name and went on to describe what to do to cause them grief.

 

Mind you a mod on another forum did pretty much the same thing posting a newspaper article that gave my full name and address saying "in case anyone is interested", nowt so queer as folk.

 

Had I put a tagline to my posts with a link to my business website I would have nothing to say, that I choose not to should tell people something.

[idun]

It simply says , Report next to the post and reply buttons.

Not used it for a long long time, but it is still there and works.

This thread has shown a sinister poster up in their true colours.... I daresay they are not ashamed of themselves, but should be.

[Chancer]

Yes it is there! Because it was not in a box like the others it was not visible to my tired old eyes [:(]

 

I have no reason to think that the person posted the image for anything other than genuine reasons, perhaps without thinking it through hence my initial response, its what came after that which still confuses me.

 

De tout façon, je ne suis pas rancunier [:)]

[Patf]

I'm shocked at how simple it seems to be to obtain a poster's private details from a post on a forum.

I had one minor experience of this - on another forum I posted a picture from my photobucket selection.

Someone traced it back and posted another photo from there, of one of our daughters [:'(] Not a nice thing to do.

I found out that photobucket isn't at all secure.

[cajal]

[quote user="Chancer"]

I have no reason to think that the person posted the image for anything other than genuine reasons, perhaps without thinking it through hence my initial response, its what came after that which still confuses me.

De tout façon, je ne suis pas rancunier [:)][/quote]

Chancer,

What I posted, I can assure you, was in no way intended to be any sort of a veiled menacing threat or the like. If anything I saw it as a bit of free publicity on your behalf with you being in the hostelry business. However, I note your point on your decision not to advertise on forums and can fully understand you not wishing certain clients turning up on your doorstep. You know who you are.

Wasn't it only last week that there were posts here regarding the use of pseudonyms? By all means use a pseudonym on a public forum, but for those who missed the point, it then becomes irrelevant if you then proceed to divulge all manner of personal information on these public forums.

You see, we villains no longer find it necessary to have to leave the comfort of our homes to uncover your bank account details and information or the skeletons in your cupboards.

[mint]

Cajal, you and me, we've always been friends, haven't we?[:D][:P]

[cajal]

[quote user="mint"]Cajal, you and me, we've always been friends, haven't we?[:D][:P]

[/quote]

Mintilú I thought we'd moved up a level from being 'just friends' and you were now my Babalú. Well that's what I thought from all the emails you send me. But whatever our relationship becomes, don't become needy with me 'cause you know what will happen!