Income Tax -

[Moulin Neuf]

It would appear that in the Vienne everyone who has just paid taxe foncieres is now being asked to visit the Hotel des Impots and discuss their tax situation generally if they are not already paying income tax.

We went along and were dealt with very pleasantly.  We were asked about our house, date of arrival, if it was a house secondaire, etc etc etc.  We were asked to sign to say we acknowledged our tax situation and that we would be expected to ask for a form (not wait for one to arrive) next March. 

It was a pleasant, informative, helpful meeting which left us in no doubt of what our obligations are.

It is obvious that there is a determined effort going on to 'be on top of the situation' and we thought it was very pleasantly carried out with no feeling of threat at all.

Well done to the staff in our Tax office - Civray!

Jan

 

[Teamedup]

So they are going after folks via the systems in place, very interesting to hear about this.

[Sue Smith]

This is probably a really dumb question and for that I apologise. HOWEVER, HAVING READ THIS POST, I'D REALLY APPRECIATE AN ANSWER. We've been here nearly two years and have never filled in/returned a tax form because we thought it wasn't necessary. We both receive UK govt. pensions which are already taxed in the UK. We have no other income. Is the completion of a French tax return still necessary?

Regards,

Sue.

[Teamedup]

As far as I know you must absolutely fill in a tax return in France even if you have a 0 bill at the end of it due to the double taxation agreement. All french residents with an income should fill one in.

[Moulin Neuf]

In answer to whether you should or should not fill in a tax return if you are in receipt of a Government pension, the answer is 'yes'.  This is infact our case.   Before our summons to the tax office, we had received advice to declare before they came looking for us.  If I were you, I would go into the Hotel des Impots and tell them that you had not realised that you had to fill in a tax return because you felt that it as you owed no tax you were not liable.  They will draw a line and then ask you to fill in for last 2004 - or perhaps one for 2003 late.  What you will succeed in doing, is preventing them from thinking that you have something to hide.  I have read on this forum of several people who have been investigated for a long period.  This is what you want to avoid.

You actually do not have to even give them what your pension is- however it is what your health cover etc is worked out on when you E106 ceases to be. 

If I can be of help, do email me.

Jan

[Sue Smith]

Hi Teamed Up and Moulin Neuf,

Thanks very much for the clarification. We shall be off to the Bureau des Impots p.d.q.!!! Don't want to get involved in investigations/mountains of paperwork etc. Thanks again for your help.

Regards,

Sue.

[Juswundrin]

Hello

Is it necessary / advisable to fill in a return if you own a property but are not yet resident? (I assume in this case you have to specifically request a form, rather than it being sent to you?)

[Liz]

[quote]HelloIs it necessary / advisable to fill in a return if you own a property but are not yet resident? (I assume in this case you have to specifically request a form, rather than it being sent to you?)[/quote]

Not unless you are obtaining an income from letting your property out (even if it is a very small sum) or you have some other income from a French source. If this is the case you do need to contact the tax people at Rue des Uzes in Paris (I can let you have details if necessary). There are sometimes rumours that they trawl through lists of properties to let in France (such as Chez Nous brochure) to compare with their records. I've never found out if this is true!

Liz (29)

[Chas]

[quote]It would appear that in the Vienne everyone who has just paid taxe foncieres is now being asked to visit the Hotel des Impots and discuss their tax situation generally if they are not already paying i...[/quote]

Similar thing happened to us in 17. We had a very pleasant meeting with a lady at hotel des impots as a result of which we had to fill in two forms. They were, I think,  basic 2043 and the 2047 for income earned abroad - pensions in our case.  We have just received notice that no additional tax is due

Chas 

 

[chirpy]

I had been here fot 3 years before checking with impots cost to be taxed in france v u.k. and I estimated  a reduced tax if i changed to paying here.

I EVENTUALLY RECLAIMED MY TAX DIRECT FROM U.K. AND ELECTED TO PAY LOCALLY.

I ONLY THIS YEAR HAVE PAID TO IMPOTS 3 YEARS TAX,THE LAST PART NEXT MONTH FOR SOCIAL FOR 2003.

I HAD SOMEONE WHO COULD TRANSLATE MY QUESTIONS ACCOMPANY ME AT THE MEETINGS.

AFTER A LOT OF HOME WORK I ALMOST UNDERSTAND THE TAX SYTEM AS MINE IS BAICALLY A SMALL PENSION AND GOVERNMENT ONE ALSO.

RENTES VIAGERES WAS 50%AND I AM 67YEARS AND NOT 60% AS I READ IN ANOTHER FORUM LETTER.

DOES ANYONE KNOW IF I SHOULD BE PAYING C.S.G.OR CAN I CLAIM IT BACK?

[edyth]

It sounds like Jan, Chas and Ab had very good experiences at their French Tax offices and that's what I had hoped for at mine in Carcassonne.

I went there last week with my FD5 forms (for opting to pay tax on my state pension in France and avoid double taxation) as the Inland Revenue Centre for Non-Residents in Nottingham had advised. They said the French will stamp them and return one to England but it may take a few months to finalise everything. So I thought I would go in good time before I need to fill in my first tax form as a resident in January.

I explained to the clerk on the desk that I also wanted some advice on filling in my tax forms as my local government pension will continue to be taxed in the UK. I had a list of questions typed out in my best French so I wouldn't forget anything. eg. where do I fill in the interest on my UK bank account which has already been paid at source? I had a tax form I had printed from the internet - is this the form I should fill in ? I asked, or is there a hard copy you can give me?

I thought maybe I would have to make an appointment to see an advisor - I didn't expect the receptionist to do anything at the desk.

She  didn't want to know - she told me to go away and come back in January or February. I suppose then I will join the long queue of French people sorting things out at the last minute.

Do you think I should write to them and ask if I can see someone? I am sure once I know what to fill in where it will be the same every year. I just want to make sure its right the first time.

[LesLauriers]

The new forms for assessing tax on your 2004 income will not be available until the January or February, and at that time your local tax office will hold open days to help you complete your return.

If you list all of your different sources of income on paper and take it with you they will complete the forms for you and give you a copy which will help in future.

You should arrange to have your bank interest paid tax free in the UK, normally your bank or building society will give you a simple form to complete allowing them to pay interest without tax.

I would return to the tax office with your inland revenue form (FD5) and simply hand it.

Remember that Isa,s, Peps or follow on Tessas, like any other interest or unearned income, will be subject to 11% social charges as well as income tax. 

[edyth]

Thanks Leslauriers - that's probably why the receptionist was telling me to come back in January or February. I will go back then.

At what level of income is it more advantageous to pay the tax on the bank interest in France? You say you pay 11% on top of the tax so if you are paying 9% income tax it would work out the same as having it taken at source in the UK.

Another point from your posting - we were told before we left England that you are not allowed to have ISAs etc if you live broad so we cashed them in. 

[LesLauriers]

Edyth

"At what level of income is it more advantageous to pay the tax on the bank interest in France?"

If you are resident in France you pay the tax and social charges in France - which is only fair and reasonable after all.

I was advised that non declaration of accounts outside France (interest paying or not) is subject to a 500€ fine per undeclared account plus of course any charges due on interest paid and a fine for late payment.

"Another point from your posting - we were told before we left England that you are not allowed to have ISAs etc if you live broad so we cashed them in." 

I know that you cannot open or pay into an existing ISA if you are not Uk resident and it may well be the case that you are not allowed to keep an existing Isa once you are no longer resident, I am uncertain on this point, perhaps someone else may know?

What is certain is that any interest or gain on a UK Isa is subject to tax and social charges in France.

[edyth]

Yes I do agree that if you live in France you should pay tax here on all earnings and that is what we intend to do. I wouldn't dream of not declaring the interest on my savings account in the UK but I know many people pay the tax at source and I just wondered if it was because it was more advantageous or just less hassle to do so.

I suppose as a retired person on a modest pension I will probably be better off paying it here anyway.

[Teamedup]

Edyth, sometimes these forms aren't out until March. Your local Mairie will get them in as soon as the come out, so keep your eye out there or ask them. Unfortunately the tax officers in France cannot do anything until you have a form in your possession.

[Brier]

"I know that you cannot open or pay into an existing ISA if you are not Uk resident and it may well be the case that you are not allowed to keep an existing Isa once you are no longer resident, I am uncertain on this point, perhaps someone else may know?"

On moving here we contacted our ISA suppliers (both cash and shares). They told us that we can keep the ISAs but not pay into them. They send the annual statements to us at our address in France.

Hope this helps

[Will]

[quote]Hello It never ceases to amaze me that people go to the tax man for advice. Unless you talk to someone quite high in the pecking order they are not going to know much more than what time lunch is ser...[/quote]

Sorry John, that popular misconception is b******s, at least as far as the UK tax system is concerned. Before moving to France my wife worked for the UK Inland Revenue, in a customer-service-orientated role, and latterly as a trainer, imparting knowledge to tax office personnel. Some of our friends are still involved in the Revenue. Answering taxpayers' questions, and providing accurate and up to date information, is a very high priority. We have since received good information from the French income tax people.

I certainly wouldn't advise against getting a good accountant though. The good ones, as well as those who are merely 'creative' and eager to pull a fast one, are well known to the tax inspecors. Indeed, your choice of accountant might well have a bearing on how you are treated by the revenue.