Now that it is a buyers market

[jon]

The present system in France is that Immobiliers charge in the region of 6% for each transaction....5 % FEE AND 1% tax.It is now going to be much harder for the seller and the agent to achieve a sale.There are obviously less buyers with less money and they will need a bigger bargain package in order to sustain a decent life style in the present financial climate.Is there a way  forward with the current system[obviously legally]for someone to set-up selling properties in France[based in the region and area of point of sale] without having an immobiliers shop-front and the formal identity as an" agent commercial".In other words working with local Maries and Notaires and finding them buyers[from UK or Ireland...or anywhere for that matter] and remaining "self-employed" under the French system..It would mean that the person involved in finding clients to purchase properties would have to find exceptional[and often very exspensive]routes to approach/reach clients who would be interested to move to France...so it is not just about a little paperwork, a few phone calls and some time.The Notaires are reall not very specialised[or interested....perhaps]in finding buyers.And agents are either ....perhaps a little exspensive and others not at all dynamic.

[Boiling a frog]

And you are going to charge what for this service, which by your own admission will be expensive.

There are already many people offering this service,such as the Granny Network  

[jon]

Yes Mr Frog there are many people doing many things all over the world.It is how and why we do what we do.Nothing is unique.Howe legal is this service within the French system?How much would I charge?That is not my main issue at this point.I like to work for myself...[as I do]

[Cat]

Leaving, for a moment, the legality of what you are proposing out of the equation, who would you expect to pay you for your services?  Would it be the buyer, in which case you might be operating under a Mandat de Recherche, or would you want to claim a percentage of the profits from the notaire?

Also, I wonder why you mention the Mairie?

[Pickles]

If I understand jon correctly, he wishes to effectively offer estate agent services in France without being registered as an estate agent. My understanding of the legal position is that if the French authorities decide that someone is offering (in France) what THEY (the authorities) consider to be estate agent services without being duly registered, authorised and qualified, then the authorities can prosecute. I seem to recall there was an example where a British couple had a (properly registered) business doing building/restoration work and had branched out into providing a "finding" service to help potential building work customers to find suitable property. IIRC, they were subject to a raid by the gendarmes (possibly provoked by a complaint from a rival) and were held for questioning pending prosecution.

My understanding of the French system in general (as a gross sweeping statement, admittedly) is that the approach is basically "if it is not specifically allowed, it's illegal", whereas the UK approach TENDS to be "if it is not specifically prohibited, it is legal".  I am quite happy to be corrected in this matter: it just seems to be a good starting assumption ...

Regards

Pickles

[Cat]

Acting as an estate agent, a negotiator or a house-hunter is regulated in France by the loi Hoguet. 

There is a fine line between acting purely as a finding service (someone who is not involved in any negotiation, and simply puts buyer and seller in contact) and someone involved in negotiations about the purchase price or about any other matters on behalf of the buyer or the seller, or otherwise acting as an intermediary (this requires a license).

I don't know how good your French is Jon, so here are a couple of links to pretty good explanations of the law in English...

http://www.anglophone-direct.com/Estate-agents-and-the-Loi-Hoguet

http://www.brittany-internet.com/BrittanyNews/PropertyNews/PropertyLaw/tabid/150/Default.aspx

[jon]

      May I please point out that at this moment I pose questions.....and this is a topic to discuss not the battleground.Please advise me what the "property finders " do...who do they work for?How the immobiliers link with the UK companies like VEF who scout for clients in UK .What qualifications are required to become a....an immobilier.....and b...an agent commercial?How is Granny structered?                                    

[Cat]

Perhaps this will help answer some of your questions Jon http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006068387&dateTexte=20081027

[Eos]

[quote user="jon"]buyers[from UK or Ireland...or anywhere for that matter][/quote]

FYI, having just been presented with a very punitive budget and an extra tax on second homes, (whether this will be applied on property abroad remains unclear as yet) I'm not sure if the previously property hungry Irish will be investing en masse as in previous years.

[Pads]

When we were house hunting ( and even more neive about french laws then we are now) I visited a number of private for sale sites. and agreeded to meet people who didnt own the houses BUT were friends of the owner and they were just helping them out as the owners didnt speak english. At first I thought golly arnt people nice out here as some of them met us and drove us around for miles .... after a while we realised that they wernt friends at all but people who were working on the side to get a bit of commision for sales on top of other jobs they had.

I should imagine they contact the french owners and stress that they have english friends who are house hunting and how they would get more from a english buyer and set a price between them for commission probally much cheaper than an estate agent . They probally think they are clever until they get caught .......[:-))]     

[jon]

Yes Pads I came accross these friends of friends to/I also came accross people who advertised with a very very very well known French prop mag in the prop for sale sections.....and they were"brokers" based here there and everywhere.Not sure how thay can receive their commission as it is the notaire who receieved the final cheque...as you all know...so there may be some very complex money divides at the end of a sale.However I bought MY CURRENT  home directly from an agency[French] not far from my home here in France.Some years ago I purchased from a well placed....and, I thought very correct agency who insisted that the seller was within her right to remain in MY HOUSE....I had signed the act at the Notary[and obviously paid for the house in full]She could remain in my house for another week as her house was not yet ready for her.She commanded the kitchen and all other areas.Later when I had more problems with local politics etc....I decided to sell....I kept my faith in the estate agent...as I viewed most people with kindness and hoped! .After one year of feeble excuses I advertised my house and sold it to the first person who read my description.I sold my property in Brittany....myself....and for double the price that the agents[all of them]had suggested.Well...the law...I always want to respect and always will.But I can not deny that I enjoy property dealings[except for the technical aspects]and feel that I can continue to find that I can help others buy and sell their dreams.The dark side of life is always there......and for those getting "crunched" it is rather more obvious.