Hereford Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 We posted a query on cheques d'emploi in the Earning a living section but have had no response so thought we would try here!Has anyone used the cheque d'emploi system please? A friend has been told that he still has to "register" and get a siret number and pay a huge insurance premium to be able to use these cheques. He, and we, thought that the whole purpose of these cheques was to avoid all the formalities when wishing to do a small amount of gardening (in friend's case) or housework./baby minding.Any inmfo would be helpful. We have looked at the website given in a posting on this forum regarding use of casual labour and this seems to support our idea of the purpose of these cheques. However when said friend went to URSSAF (sorry if wrong order of letters!) he was told a different story.many thanksHereford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamedup Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 As far as I know it is his employer that gets these cheques from their bank to pay him, that is where perhaps he has been going wrong, it's down to his employers. And I believe it to work exactly as you have mentioned and AFAIK he won't need to register as a business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicmonkey<ADDRESS><STRONG>Musicmonkey<STRONG><ADDRESS> Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 We use these cheques to pay our caretaker. It is up to the employer to obtain the special cheque book (though I think there is a new system whereby you can pay with another payment method - once you are set up with the URSSAF). The employee needs to give you their details, social security no. etc so that these charges will be credited to them and debited to your account on top of the face value of the cheque.If you go to www.ces.urssaf.fr and click on the 'presentation' option you can see a specimen (though not v. clearly) of the document you send to the URSSAF on a monthly basis.This system is a simple (if expensive) way to pay for casual labour such as described above. This is detailed in the website too.Hope this is helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian 56 Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 I use them to pay a gardener. If you are over 70 you can get tax relief on the cotisations you pay each month. ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereford Posted February 10, 2005 Author Share Posted February 10, 2005 Brilliant, thanks everyone. Musicmonkey: What "social security number"? Is this our friend's health number with CPAM or something else? If something else (tax number???) where does he get such number please?Very many thanks - he was panicing that he would never be able to work.H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamedup Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 The health number with the CPAM will be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereford Posted February 11, 2005 Author Share Posted February 11, 2005 Thanks. As we understand it on the URSSAF website insurance is covered by the "employer" cotisations. Is this correct? Insurance cover is part of the reason for wanting to work, and employ, legally.Hereford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicmonkey<ADDRESS><STRONG>Musicmonkey<STRONG><ADDRESS> Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Hereford, that is how I understand it but don't quote me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicmonkey<ADDRESS><STRONG>Musicmonkey<STRONG><ADDRESS> Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 I have double checked the Cheque d'emploi website and confirmed that it does give the employee insurance cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereford Posted February 12, 2005 Author Share Posted February 12, 2005 Thanks everyone. We will now go to URSSAF together with said friend, or indeed to our bank to get a special cheque book.Hereford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian 56 Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 You go to your bank for an application form which you complete and return to URSSAF. They authorise the bank to issue the cheque book. It takes about 4 weeks.ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamedup Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 Surely it is the employer that does this, NOT the employee. They want to employ someone they get the cheque book to pay them and sort this minimal amount of paperasse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian 56 Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 As I understand it Hereford is the employer. He contacted me through my personal box for some information.ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamedup Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 Sorry, I had missed that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 [quote]We posted a query on cheques d'emploi in the Earning a living section but have had no response so thought we would try here! Has anyone used the cheque d'emploi system please? A friend has been told...[/quote]RE Cheque Emploi Service (CES)there is a specific website which explains how and when to use them: www.ces.urssaf.fr/I am employed by my elderly neightbour as a "home help" a couple of hours a day, doing shopping, housekeeping and such-like.There is a contract between us, as in any other employment; I get paid an agreed hourly rate (no lower than the SMIC and that is shown on the above website as well) and she gives me a cheque every month. She sends a special cheque (obtained from her bank) to the CES section of URSSAF, showing the number of hours worked, the agreed hourly rate and the period worked. This cheque allows the correct contributions to be deducted from her bank account. She also receives a monthly letter from the CES office, showing what contributions are paid on my behalf. She is my employer. She could employ several people like me and I could work for several employers.Both employer and employee pay a certain amount as contributions. It's very important for both to understand on what basis these contributions are paid:there are 2 options:salaire réel (where both employer's and employee's contributions are based on the actual rate of pay) This rate is the highest but garantees a higher return in case if illness, unemployment and pension...salaire forfaitaire (where a basic lower contribution is made by both) which will only give out basic rights.Each month I receive a "attestation d'emploi" from the CES office, which shows all the deductions made on my salary and lists all the things I contribute to (which I don't really understand anyway!) It also shows the actual income I am supposed to declare when filling in my tax return every year.As a person who had not previously contributed to the French economy (except as a working sudent for 2 months a long time ago) this enabled me to get into the Social Security system and get cover for myself and my husband. When I was signed off recently for 5 days after a small car crash, I was informed that my employer's and my (small) contributions were enough to cover both of us until end of 2008...I hope this helps clarify things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereford Posted February 13, 2005 Author Share Posted February 13, 2005 Many thanks on this last post, we did not know that there were 2 versions with different cotisations. Will sort this out when we register.Hereford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicmonkey<ADDRESS><STRONG>Musicmonkey<STRONG><ADDRESS> Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 "this enabled me to get into the Social Security system and get cover for myself and my husband" Can I ask what you had to do to register. Was is straightforward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 [quote]" this enabled me to get into the Social Security system and get cover for myself and my husband" Can I ask what you had to do to register. Was is straightforward?[/quote]After completing the employment contract (downloaded from the website marked above) with my employer, she sent it off and I received a letter asking me to verify the details supplied and that was pretty much that...I already had a SS (or CPAM as someone called it) number from my work as a student some 26 years ago, so I had already updated/obtained cover through a E106 on my return to France from the UK, whereI had spent all my working life to date.This small job enabled me to slip seamlessly from a E106 cover into my own cover provided by my contributions off my salary, as well as providing cover for my husband as a dependant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moulin Neuf Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 I run a cheque book d'emploi and find that the cheque face value is approx 63% of the total amount. Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicmonkey<ADDRESS><STRONG>Musicmonkey<STRONG><ADDRESS> Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 There has been an announcement reported by Reuters (16th Feb) about the inroduction of a 'cheque d'emploi service universel' which appears to promise that there will be reduced taxes due by employers to encourage this type of job and to encourage training. Does anyone know any more about this such as do we have to do anything and when it takes effect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereford Posted February 19, 2005 Author Share Posted February 19, 2005 Moulin Neuf: Can you give an actual example of a cheque you paid someone and the resulting additional amount deducted from your bank accout please?We have been given an example of a cheque for 77 euros generating an additional payment of 19.44 euros - this is much lower than the percentage you suggest.Many thankshereford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 As an employee, this is what my "payslip" (attestation d'emploi) says:last month, I received a cheque from my employer for €307.33, which is what goes into my account.Ths payslip lists "cotisations sociales" totaling €90.96My nett salary is shown as €398.29 (total of 2 figures above)My taxable salary is shown as €318.39As I will have to declare €11.06 more than I actually banked, this represents my share of "cotisations sociales". The €90.96 are paid by my employer.Hope this helps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicos Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Oh dear- now I am confused!!I live in England but have found someone to cut our lawns in France.(we are signing for the house next week)As we shall be meeting him next week to sort out payments etc, I'd like to understand our options.If I chose to pay him cash or cheque- will it be up to him to decide whether to pay tax or not?If he is using his own equipment on our land, would my house insurance cover him for any accidents if we were at fault?Would it be better for us to pay him by cheque d'emploi or normal cheque ?And can't we claim any tax etc back as we live in the UK????I want to do the 'right thing'- what do you advise please???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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