Déclaration des Revenues - form

[Katieb]

I think we must have our "financial heads" on today as we are trying to do research and homework for the forthcoming Déclaration (our first one).

Having read previous threads on this forum i understand that we will need to complete a 2042/2047 and 3916, i also note that we need a 2047k and a 2047c - are these latter forms included in the 2042 complet (as opposed to the 2042 simple - which i believe is for french salaried and pensioners?)

Is there a complete  list of the forms available on line? if not, how do i know which forms we are required to complete?

We have printed off last year's form in an attempt to have a "trial run" - hoping it is going to be reasonably straight forward as we have received no income since moving here last July, are not in receipt of any pensions, do not have property in the UK and only have interest from UK accounts/ ISA's etc (which may lead to another question very soon!).

If any kind soul has any useful advice or can suggest further web sites to help us, we'd be extremely grateful.

Many thanks

Kate

 

[Clair]

[quote user="Katieb"]Is there a complete  list of the forms available on line? if not, how do i know which forms we are required to complete?[/quote]

You can find more info on this official website:

http://www.impots.gouv.fr/portal/dgi/public/particuliers

"Pour accéder à l'ensemble des imprimés, chaque page du site vous propose de "rechercher un formulaire" (colonne de gauche)." (our site offers a search facility for any form rechercher un formulaire on the left left column)

[Ron Avery]

Kate

You are correct in that you need the 2042 and 2047 forms and that the 2042 (s) is not for you,  The figures on the 2047 ( income from abroad) go onto the 2042

I have never completed a 3916 nor been asked to do so,  my understanding was that it was only if you opened an account abroad in the tax year, not already had one, perhaps Les lauriers can confirm this. 

There are no forms 2047c or K, nor a 2042 C or K on the French tax forms listing, where did these forms come from?

There is an English speaking help line by E mail if you do not have an English speaker at your tax office.  Even if you have good French, if it is your first declaration, it is where it gets tested to the limit,  so don't be afraid to ask for help.[:)]  You can E mail specific questions in English to:  [email protected]

[LesLauriers]

Opened, closed or used, is what it states and I take used as being any transaction whatsoever.

On the basis that there is a 500€ fine for each account not declared, I declare everything!

[Ron Avery]

So Les  does that mean  for your first tax declaration in France you have to declare details of all the accounts that you may have had and still have in the UK?

If you do then have the  tax office staff been remiss in not asking those I have accompanied to the Tax Office and myself as to where and what are the accounts that generate the interest we have declared on the 2047.amd 2042 forms?

I must admit this form is a new one on me[*-)]     Perhaps because we showed statements tio support declarations etc the tax office staff decided that was sufficient evidence and did not want a separate declaration?

[LesLauriers]

[quote user="Ron Avery"]

So Les  does that mean  for your first tax declaration in France you have to declare details of all the accounts that you may have had and still have in the UK?

It is a requirement that you declare all accounts held outside France each time you submit a tax return. The fine for failing to declare is 500€ per account.

If you do then have the  tax office staff been remiss in not asking those I have accompanied to the Tax Office and myself as to where and what are the accounts that generate the interest we have declared on the 2047.amd 2042 forms?

That's the one!

I must admit this form is a new one on me[*-)]     Perhaps because we showed statements tio support declarations etc the tax office staff decided that was sufficient evidence and did not want a separate declaration?

In my experience very few French functionaires have experience of all of the rules when it comes to dealing with UK income. The CPAM people seem to be the most confused of all! They insisted that I pay 8% of capital for health cover and asked for what amounted to 38 pages of photocopied info - needless to say I did not pay or produce anything like.

Recently a friend received a demand from CPAM for 5500€, after a few letters and a meeting the bill was reduced to 0€. I had the devil of a job explaining that whilst bank interest was paid on the previous years deposits, it was the year in which the interest was received that the taxable event occured.

I would imagine that the UK tax offices have people who are equally mystified by foreign earnings, however they are, in my experience, more likely to go and ask, whereas the Functionaire cannot be seen to either "not know" or "be wrong".

[/quote]

[Will]

The difference is that French fonctionnaires have what amounts to virtually a job for life, and although some are prepared to put themselves out to get the right answer for you, most just want an easy life for themselves. Whereas in Britain, the performance of HM Revenue & Customs staff is closely monitored and reviewed by their superiors and actally get training to ensure they know how to deal with these eventualities, or know to whom to pass on enquiroes, and if they do not measure up they get retrained to give them the knowledge. Mrs Will used to train them, and we still have good friends who are Britsih tax inspectors.

Only 5500€? That's nothing. My current vieilesse cotisation bill is for over 14 000€, and that represents over half of the relevant year's total income (all from foreign earnings) not counting other deductions for assurance santé, URSSAF and tax. And they say France is cheap and stress-free.

[tinabee]

[quote user="Ron Avery"]

I have never completed a 3916 nor been asked to do so,  my understanding was that it was only if you opened an account abroad in the tax year, not already had one, perhaps Les lauriers can confirm this. 

[/quote]

Has anyone been fined for not declaring accounts one year and then declaring them the next?  I am sure there are people out there who now realise they should do the 3916 form who didn't in the past.

[chessfou]

We did not complete a 3916 last year. Under section 8 of the 2042, we ticked box UU (Comptes bancaires à l'étranger) and attached a list of the accounts. That seemed to be perfectly acceptable (and was what was asked for by the local inspector when I ran through the forms with him).

Does form 3916 seek greater detail than just basic account info (account name, account number, institution name, institution address and indication if opened/closed during the year), which we put in our list?

[Sunday Driver]

My tax office had never heard of a 3916 - I even had to explain to them what it was for.  They searched all the filing cabinets and came back empty handed.  In the end, they accepted a typewritten list detailing my UK current and savings accounts.

The actual 3196 form applies to a single foreign account asks for details of the account holder and details of the account  - designation of the establishment, address, account number, date opened, date closed.  You'd need to complete one for each foreign account....