Rough agricultural land - is this a fair price?

[Rosyposy_2001]

 

 

Hi Everyone!

We have a small property near Lignol, which we are only able to use as a holiday property for ourselves as, for personal reasons, we are not able to live in France, at least not for the foreseeable future.

The farmer of the land adjoining ours has instructed a notaire to offer us a piece of his land which adjoins our garden, for the price of €3000. It is only 3696 sq metres and is very rough scrubby agricultural. land which he has not cultivated for some time, and a deep ditch runs between it and us, and also between it and the road. We suspect that this price is very high for what it is, and we would only want it for possibly building a small garage at some time in the future, definitely not to build a dwelling. There is no mention in the notaire's letter that any planning permission to build would or would not be available, so obviously this is a question I would have to ask. I have tried to find out its possible value, looked on the cadastral plan online etc, but this portion of the land does not appear to be classified on its own, although the portion of the field he is keeping is classified as P1, and in a much better state, and I can't find anything similar for sale. We suspect that he may be after some quick cash and that we are the only people he has offered it to so far!

As we are able to be there many times a year (several day-trips but only 2-3 longer holidays) to upkeep the land we are wondering:

a) is the price he is asking too high,

b) if it would be an asset (if we had to sell our house in the future), or a millstone around our necks

We are both nearly 60, so not getting any younger or fitter, and just wonder if anyone has any advice, opinions on the price, or experience of buying land that turned out well/not well, etc.

Thanks very much

[Dog]

If you want the land offer 1500 euros and see how it goes.

[just john]

Probably your notaire is one of the best people to approach about the 'normal' price of this land, he would know what scrub agricultural land is worth; when we bought an extra adjoining plot for a similar price to yours we were advised that ''the price is what it is but the value is only half that, no doubt it is worth most to you;
If he is truly independent he would advise of this price and also conduct a bargaining offer if you so desired. As the existing property owner you are the person most likely to gain additional dwelling permission if it is available to anyone; consult your Mairie or local geometre, you might find it has some/no potential. Since the farmer is offering it to you first, if you decline, then you could not complain if the land is subsequently sold to someone else who choses to keep a herd of goats or park his agricultural equipment on it, do nothing and someone else might just.

I guess my advice would be
a) does it protect your property/view from any alternative use/development?
b) if you're interested then negotiate, offering a flat agricultural price to start, (who is going to pay more?)
Don't forget about substantial fees for the sale and land transfer, ask the notaire what they amount now.

If you did buy it, what opportunity does it open up, your own orchard perhaps?

[Suze01]

Ask at your Mairie to check the PLU (Plan Locale d'Urbanisation) for the classification. It may look like agricultural land but as it adjoins constructed land it may be classified as constructible and this would affect the price.

[Rosyposy_2001]

Hi

Thank you for all the helpful replies.

I have spoken to the notaire today, she agrees that the land is expensive for what it is, but was also of the opinion that it would add greatly to the value of the house if we ever wanted to sell, as we only have a very small garden, and therefore considered it worth the price to us. She said that she was pretty sure (and would check) that the farmer would be willing to maintain it for us for as long as it was not fenced off from his land, so that would take away the major worry of it getting very overgrown while we are away, and having to spend all our time looking after it when we are there. Apparently he already does this to another piece of land for our neighbours, and I think he keeps the hay in return.

Those were the good points! On the other hand the notaire says that the farmer is not willing to sell just part of the land as it is a well-defined plot in itself (the large size is not so important if we don't have to take care of it all the time), but also he is not open to offers as our other neighbours are also interested and will buy it if we don't! So much for our theory that it had only been offered to us!

We're a bit surprised at this as neither of them live permanently in the neighbouring houses and they aren't let out, but apparently that is the current state of play. The notaire says that it would be no problem to get permission for us to build a garage, but it is far less likely that anyone would get permission for a dwelling. She is going to phone the Mairie for us to find out what the likelihood would be. We have no intention of building a dwelling on it ever, but are concerned that someone else might.

So really it is all down to us - we know that we really want the land in the light of the maintenance problem being taken away, and everyone we have asked says that it would be a good investment, but it is a major problem having to find the full price €3000 plus the fees, which the notaire says would be a massive €1340, nearly half as much again! We don't know whether to put in an offer despite what the notaire says and risk losing the land and having to live with whatever appears on it in the future, (53 houses have just been built on land at the end of our garden in England on land that everyone said nothing would ever be built on, so we are only too aware of the pitfalls!) or put ourselves in a much worse financial position than we are now (very little to spare) and risk being "taken for a ride" by paying the full price, if the farmer thinks we are a bit of a soft touch! Having said that, I understand the notaire is obliged to have the best interests of both parties in mind? We are trying to think far ahead, but don't have that many working years ahead of us to regain the ready cash needed for our retirement, so it is quite a difficult decision. (We hope to spend a lot more time there after we retire, but my husband is adamant that he will not move permanently from England!)

Anyway, thank you again, I will post along the way to let you know how things work out, in the hope that it will help someone else in the future.

I'm off to London tomorrow until Jan 2nd, so Happy New Year to you all, whichever side of the Channel you will be spending it on!

[Pierre ZFP]

Can I say that at less than 1€ a sq metre sounds good to me even for scrubland. I would jump at it. Also, if there is so much interest in it, you would have no trouble selling at a later date if you wanted

[just john]

How about talking to your neighbours and forming a 2 or 3 way consortium and sharing the cost, (though there would be even more costs from a geometre to split the land, at least you would not bear the whole cost and each end up with your own plot. It would circumvent the farmer playing each of you against each other.  Beware of allowing the farmer to maintain your land, especially if it is not a written agreement through the notaire, otherwise he can claim usage rights despite your ownership.

 

[Rosyposy_2001]

Thanks for that valuable advice, we hadn't even thought about him being able to claim usage rights! We would certainly get something in writing!

The consortium idea is good too, but we aren't over there at the mo, and the neighbouring owners live elsewhere, and we don't know where. Also neither of them speak English and my French isn't up to negotiation level, so don't know if i could cope with that.

Unfortunately I don't think we shall ever be able to live in France, if we did I wouldn't hesitate to buy the land and make good use of it, but we are already finding it difficult to afford to run 2 houses and the fares back and forth from Plymouth to Roscoff (we live near Plymouth so no other route makes sense unfortunately) so we are really trying to think ahead to the day when we might have to sell, and whether the land would either increase the value of the house to any degree, or widen its appeal to prospective buyers. It is a small country cottage and at the moment most likely to appeal to "holiday home" buyers like ourselves. Equally if someone else bought the land and developed it, would this out off prospective buyers? It would if it was me!

I think, despite what the notaire says, we shall have to just offer what we can afford and if the farmer won't accept or our neighbours outbid us, we shall just have to accept that we tried and failed. We have too many other probs at mo that also need money chucked at them!

Thanks for your comments.