Is CSG payable on pension withdrawals?

[Visky]

I plan to start drawing down from a UK pension pot, and I'm trying to work out the likely amount left after deductions.  Fully French tax resident for many years. 

I think I'd be better declaring off it as normal income (not the special 7.5% thing), and I know it carries an automatic 10% rebate, but cannot work out the Social Contributions liability, if any.

I'd be most grateful for any clarification.

[parsnips]

[quote user="Visky"]

I plan to start drawing down from a UK pension pot, and I'm trying to work out the likely amount left after deductions.  Fully French tax resident for many years. 

I think I'd be better declaring off it as normal income (not the special 7.5% thing), and I know it carries an automatic 10% rebate, but cannot work out the Social Contributions liability, if any.

I'd be most grateful for any clarification.

[/quote]

 Hi,

    If, as I take it you mean, you will be taking reasonable amounts each year to  boost your total income , and you don't normally pay much or any income tax, you should declare on 2047 page 1- "pensions , rentes ....etc" and 2042 box 1AS.  If you are in receipt of UK state retirement pension (with S1) you will not be liable to CSG.   If not , you should declare on 2047 for CSG in accordance with this;     

    http://www.droitissimo.com/sites/default/files/formulaires/Cerfa_50148-19_2041GG-2016_Notice_Revenus_source_%C3%A9trangere_outre-mer.pdf.

[Visky]

"If, as I take it you mean, you will be taking reasonable amounts each

year to  boost your total income , and you don't normally pay much or

any income tax, you should declare on 2047 page 1- "pensions , rentes

....etc" and 2042 box 1AS."

Thank you very much indeed Parsnips, that is exactly the case. 

" If you are in receipt of UK state retirement pension (with S1) you will not be liable to CSG."

May I ask if this still definitely the case (ie because it's pension income),  or is this historical and likely to be challenged under the new rules for "Social Contributions" brought in this year for investment income?  I ask because our local Tax Office are notoriously difficult and unpleasant to deal with and I don't think I could face the long, drawn out claims procedure!

[Doodle]

Thanks for the posting as I have done exactly the same this year and had intended to show it exactly as Parsnips as said.

I do have a question regarding the 3916 form. Would a UK draw down pension of this type mean that it is an account that should be listed on the 3916 form. What was originally just a personal pension plan is now, due to the new british government changes has become a glorified investment account.

What a conundrum! Thanks, Mrs KG

[parsnips]

[quote user="Visky"]

"If, as I take it you mean, you will be taking reasonable amounts each

year to  boost your total income , and you don't normally pay much or

any income tax, you should declare on 2047 page 1- "pensions , rentes

....etc" and 2042 box 1AS."

Thank you very much indeed Parsnips, that is exactly the case. 

" If you are in receipt of UK state retirement pension (with S1) you will not be liable to CSG."

May I ask if this still definitely the case (ie because it's pension income),  or is this historical and likely to be challenged under the new rules for "Social Contributions" brought in this year for investment income?  I ask because our local Tax Office are notoriously difficult and unpleasant to deal with and I don't think I could face the long, drawn out claims procedure!

Hi,

For the foreseeable future CSG on pensions is covered by this ;

http://www.droitissimo.com/sites/default/files/formulaires/Cerfa_50148-19_2041GG-2016_Notice_Revenus_source_%C3%A9trangere_outre-mer.pdf

- section "champ d'application" line 1, which defines the pensions subject to CSG, and by implication , those (covered by S1) which are exempt.

It is impossible to predict future possible changes.

[/quote]

[parsnips]

[quote user="Mrs KG"]Thanks for the posting as I have done exactly the same this year and had intended to show it exactly as Parsnips as said.

I do have a question regarding the 3916 form. Would a UK draw down pension of this type mean that it is an account that should be listed on the 3916 form. What was originally just a personal pension plan is now, due to the new british government changes has become a glorified investment account.

What a conundrum! Thanks, Mrs KG[/quote]

Hi,

 Personally I don't think you need declare it as an account, as you are declaring the income from it as a pension under the french rules for doing so.  I believe the requirement to give details of foreign bank accounts is to catch people who hide money in overseas accounts from which they are not declaring interest.

[Doodle]

Thanks Parsnips, sometimes the more I sit and think about things the more complicated I seem to want to make it.

Mrs KG

[Visky]

Parsnips, many thanks again for your invaluable help in all these "taxing" matters - you deserve a medal.

[Doodle]

Totally agree with you Visky. Parsnips on this forum has been so much help especially when I took over from the OH the tax form completion last year - I wasn't at all sure of what I was doing but can confidently say that I do now and had this years tax/ps worked out and to my surprise the bill arrived and I was 1 euro out!

a most grateful Mrs KG