A fair world? Or not?

[Judith]

[quote user="KathyF"]Is it an urban/rural divide then, Judith?  I see you live in WI and I'm in Mid-Wales.  From my perspective the original diatribe bears no relation to reality at all, but it's possible that in London things look different. Mind you, from my perspective, life in our big cities seems far more foreign than life in the French countryside.[/quote]

KathyF

It might be - though I have seen less out of London than in.  But it doesn't take much to hear and notice the large number of foreign accents (and more and more E-European) and the groups of (usually) men standing around at times when most would be in work.  And I am not talking about areas which most would consider to be "immigrant gehttos) but the West End and City where most of my activities are based.  Like you, when I travel to other parts of the UK, never mind rural France, I feel much less threatened and insecure - and for those who do not live in London (and even working there is not the same) (or the other large cities where these populations tend to concentrate eg Glasgow has a similar problem my nephew (who is based) there tells me) you do not see it on a day-to-day /live with it basis, so perhaps most people on this forum who do not seem to live in large cities think we are making it up.  Even my husband who has been back to London once since he retired has forgotten what it was like, and it has not improved in the 18 months since then.  So your analysis of rural / urban (especially larger urban areas) could indeed be quite correct.

[Ron Avery]

Daily Mail office

"Here Boss, if you are an illegal immigrant, you know those who we keep on about that come here to scrounge off the state, get social security, council houses, free prescriptions"

"Yes, what about them?".

"Well,  how can you claim social security and housing benefit etc if nobody knows that you are here?  Wouldn't these people be unable to claim anything and have to work for less than the minimum wage and be exploited by dodgy UK employers?"

"Stop asking stupid questions and get on with that "assylum seeker shagged my 15 year daughter" story, if you start thinking about facts you'll soon find yourself working for The Sun"

[Ron Avery]

"Groups of (usually) men standing around at times when most would be in

work.  And I am not talking about areas which most would consider to be

"immigrant gehttos) but the West End and City.

 OH No they are not Tourists or smokers are they?????????

EDIT Judith said "- it IS scarily nearer the truth than one would like"

Near the truth?  But NOT the truth is it?  OK there are some episodes alluded to that have demonstrated some ridiculous decisions made by government, social services, local authorities etc from time to time  but these are exceptions not the rule and it is the exceptions that are trotted out by the Mail etc as being the norm.

One example was Norwich City Council was reported as banning hanging baskets from its lamp posts for health and safety reasons "health and safety gone mad" ranted the Mail/Express etc  But the truth was that a big 10kg hanging basket had falled from a lamp post and narrowly missed a person walking by.  A check on the lamp post and others like it found that the arms the baskets were hung on were rusted through and any weight put on them would break them, was this reported?  Of course not, the truth does not sell papers.

As for the Afghans saying what was reported by FA I did not see the item although I watched Breakfast most mornings this week so I cannot comment, but did they say it in English or was it translated for them?  Never mind I'll go back on the BBC site on the Internet and check the actual article and what was actually said, be nice to get some facts into the equation for a change

[marina]

EDIT Marina said "- it IS scarily nearer the truth than one would like"

No I didn't, but something I did say has been attributed to somebody else, so I am probably seeing a different version of the forum from some others.

Otherwise I agree with you Ron.

[Ron Avery]

Many apologies Marina it was judith I was quoting, I have now changed it

Wow was that a friendly fire incident?[:D]

[Ford Anglia]

[quote user="Dick Smith"][quote user="Ford Anglia"]

OK, I bow to all you superior-knowledged beings.

But you know what they say? "There's none so blind.........."

[/quote]

I think it may be wise to consider that if no-one agrees with you, it might be you that is out of step.
[/quote]

Agreed................except Judith DID agree with me, as did many on the other forum I post on.[;-)]

Nice try though, Dick[:D]

[Ford Anglia]

[quote user="Ron Avery"]Daily Mail office

"Here Boss, if you are an illegal immigrant, you know those who we keep on about that come here to scrounge off the state, get social security, council houses, free prescriptions"

"Yes, what about them?".

"Well,  how can you claim social security and housing benefit etc if nobody knows that you are here?  Wouldn't these people be unable to claim anything and have to work for less than the minimum wage and be exploited by dodgy UK employers?"

"Stop asking stupid questions and get on with that "assylum seeker shagged my 15 year daughter" story, if you start thinking about facts you'll soon find yourself working for The Sun"
[/quote]

Now that IS either cynical, or silly!

So................my mate who is a council fitter made up the story of the Ethiopean family given council housing, benefits etc in Leicester, then? They were definitely illegals, because the father had hurt his back when he jumped from a moving train as it left the tunnel. John was told all this by the social worker who was there with the family when he went to repauir damage they'd done to the property trying to build a cooking hole for their cooking fire.

AND the father got a free car and free driving lessons too.

You COULDN'T make it up, Ron.

My first post WAS a bit tongue in cheek, but I'm a fraid those of you who totally deny it, rubbish it, loath it, or just dismiss it as Daily Mail propaganda, are a bit blinkered. Perhaps one or two of YOU aren't living in the real world?

Or just are Guardian readers? [:D][:D]

[Ron Avery]

.............my mate who is a council fitter made up the story of

the Ethiopean family given council housing, benefits etc in Leicester,

then? They were definitely illegals, because the father had hurt his

back when he jumped from a moving train as it left the tunnel. John was

told all this by the social worker who was there with the family when

he went to repauir damage they'd done to the property trying to build a

cooking hole for their cooking fire.

If you want to know what I believe, well yes I think your mate made up that story as he knew you would believe it.

So "Judith agreed with me", well if she did,  which I don't think "it is close to the truth" really qualifies as agreement, she should get out more, as should you. You say many of us do not live in the UK anymore, that is true, but our families do and we can visit from time to time.

So what do we have, Afghans on BBC Breakfast demanding houses and free money, no trace on the Breakfast web site of this yarn and your mate just happens to be a council fitter in Leicester (another second hand yarn) and finding Etheopian illegal immigrants given a council house, long way from the tunnel to Leicester don't you think??  FA,  try using your grey matter for once and shut the Daily Mail, how can they be illegal if they are known to Leicester Council?  Perhaps they are seeking asylum, maybe they are economic migrants looking for a better life in the UK.  Anyway, so what if a desperate starving Etheopian family have got themselves to the UK to find food and shelter, how does that offend you?  Here is a challenge for you, what exactly offends you about the stories you have quoted?  Are you envious?  Are you in need of a council house?  Are they spending your council tax to feed and house people that would have died if they had stayed in their own country. All you post is "my mate" "somebody told me", "I read somewhere".  Where are your facts, please no more second and third habd rumours. If you want some facts and details of Asylum Seekers and what they have had to endure I'll send you some, pictures of parents shot dead in front of their children in Kosova, brothers be-headed because they belonged to the wrong political party in Turkey, these are not yarns they are things I have witnessed with my own eyes, I'm not telling you how or where, whereas your yarns are no better than those that had to be tolerated by the West Indians in the 50's, remember that they all ate Kit-E kat didn't they?  All because somebody saw one once somewhere buying tins in a shop maybe for their cat?  Imagine what the Daily Express would do with that story now and how many bigots would rush to believe it .  You might like to think again about living in France, there are immigrants here too, most of them white[:P].

[RumziGal]

[quote user="Ron Avery"]  You might like to think again about living in France, there are immigrants here too, most of them white[:P].[/quote]

Ron, everyone knows the immigrants to France are North African brown, they only come over here to claim benefits, they all have big houses back home, and they go to Restos du Coeur for free meals and drive off in their 4x4s, and they build mosques on every free bit of land, and they live in ghettos and don't integrate and some of them even speak Arabic in public.   I heard someone speaking Arabic here once, you know, so it's true.   And have you seen the obscene amounts of coriander they sell for a euro?   Putting French coriander sellers out of business, they are.  As for taking places in the national football team...... [:D]

Someone should do something.   Like shut up.

 

[Ford Anglia]

Ron: this has really wound you up hasn't it?[:P]

OK, so YOU don't believe any of my anecdotes, and YES they are second hand. AFAIK, they aren't lies though. I DID see the Afghani on BTV, as did my wife, but then, I suppose the Daily Mail set that up too?

It does amaze me that the Socialist leaning, Guardian reading majority on here[:D] seem to resort SO quickly to either rudeness, abuse or telling others to shut up.

I HAD thought that was a trait usually attributed to the RIGHT wing, but it seems I'm mistaken.[:P]

Last post on this topic. (From me at least).

[RumziGal]

[quote user="Ford Anglia"]

OK, so YOU don't believe any of my anecdotes, and YES they are second hand. AFAIK, they aren't lies though. I DID see the Afghani on BTV, as did my wife, but then, I suppose the Daily Mail set that up too?

[/quote]

Of course there are going to be a few "bad" immigrants, I don't think anyone's denying that.  Just as there are also native English scroungers, and native French scroungers.

Rather than waste energy on a frenzy of moral indignation about these few, why not propose some measures to deal with the problem?        

 

 

[Judith]

No they are not Tourists or smokers are they?????????

Is it really [near]  the truth?

Obviously don't get out enough!

Ron

(1) You know, actually I CAN tell the difference between tourists (enough of them in St James's park which I cross twice a day) smokers (lost track of the numbers of those I see, but they hang around office doors, not on street corners), and those hanging around with (seemingly) nothing to do.

(2) I never said it was the truth, but near it - AND - as I presume most of the posters on this forum know - truth is often stranger than fiction, and that such satirical items can only come from the grain of truth which makes it possible to write it in the first place.

(3) I thought I had made it clear that I was describing what I SEE on my walks in the middle of London, which are almost daily occurrences.  I do get out - every day!

My post also acknowledged the media bias - but some posters have conveniently forgotten that point it seems!

As with FA - since it seems yet another debate has been hijacked by someone seeing red - this will also be my last post on this topic, I feel it has gone as far as it usefully can, nad I have certainly much better things to do with my time.

[Ron Avery]

So what does a tourist look like then Judith as opposed to a loiterer? Are back packers wearing suits and ties these days, do these loitererss speak with E European accents, wear hoodies  or are they dusky with sand in their shoes[:D]  Maybe it was that Rumanian that the Daily Mail set up in St James's Park and his mates that you saw.

I must have passed you in the Park then Judith, did you go via the bridge?  Charing Cross to Strutton Ground daily, most of the people I used to see loitering around St James were waiting for the Passport Office to open.  Went back to the office a couple of months ago, no loiterers  to be seen, mind you he Home Office has moved as has the Passport Office.  By the way,  FA said that you agreed with him it was the truth or near it, not me.