Carte de Sejour - NOT NEEDED

[robhaslam]

I was very displeased at being told that I needed a Carte de Sejour to change the address where my car is registered (in Paris) at the Marie of the 17th arrondisement.

I asked the young lady concerned to double check and she came back with her mangager to tell me that I needed one ("we onl deal with French administration" she said). I pointed out that on a big poster in the hall it said you need one of the following for identification ;
PASSPORT or CARTE DE SEJOUR but she wouldn't have it!

Anyway, off I went to the Prefacture at Isle de la Cite (which is always a comple pain in the ##### and very very long process) and not in a good mood.

As soon as I arrive I ask for the carte de sejour department and am told that it is NOT NECESSARY. I was given a small print-out of a law change (dated October 2003) which states that in all cases where a Carte de Sejour is required , the Passport can be used in place to justify this for all EU members.

I intend to go back to the Marie of the 17th with this and tell ask for an apology for wasting my time.

Anyway, I thought this may be of interest to others in similar "carte de sejour" problems (a bank also said I needed one to make an application). If people cause you problems about this then ask them to contact the prefacture at Paris.

Regards,

-Rob-

[Washy]

I have typed up the clause from the law change and it is on the other posting further down, I am sorry you had your time wasted but I am determined that the Gendarmes here are not going to waste ours.....

[Will]

I'm not getting at Rob or Washy here, or any of the authors of the (currently) 123 postings in the other similar thread, but I wonder what the objection is to having a Carte de Sejour?

It might not be legally required any more, but I for one would far rather carry a single, small card that cost next to nothing than a larger passport (that would cost something like 80 to replace in case of loss or damage) and an EDF bill or similar proof of address, which is necessary as the passport doesn't say where you live. Plus there's all the aggravation involved in dealing with those numerous petty officials, many of whom aren't yet au fait with the fact that a passport and proof of address may be accepted as a substitute.

It seems those who don't get a Carte de Sejour are really making a rod for their own backs here.

Will (50)

[Waterboy]

Last week we recieved letters from our prefecture in Niort (79) informing us that they are not issuing CDS to us as we are EU citizens. Regulation No 2003-119 dated 26th Nov 2003.

If I am driving I carry my driving licence otherwise nothing like just about everybody else in these parts.

Waterboy

[ckenway]

Went to Carcassonne today to see what has happened about our CDS as we have not received it yet and we need it for registering our B&B, or so they said. The Prefecture at Carcassonne said they had done nothing because as of 29th November 2003 CDS's were not required by EU citizens. I asked about the Chambres of Commerce so they phoned them and told them we did not require a CDS. Now thats different to what I have read here, I thought it was 1st Jan 2004 the CDS requirement stopped but again I suspect it's down to different departmental interpretation of the law.

[Miki]

Today at a meeting with the Ch de Commerce, I asked once again, the question of the CDS. Now I have to admit that the Ch de Com are not the voice of legality on this matter. Only the right ministers at the governemnt know the facts, even if they have put them over badly.

They told me that as far as they are aware, those moving here from within the EU and NOT intending to work, will no longer need to apply for a CDS to live in France, when I questioned her about those wanting to work here, the lady I was talking to brought up on the screen the new rules.

Now they are pretty confusing, especially when sitting sideways on to the screen but she read it out and she stated that, those persons intending to work in France from within the EU must apply for a CDS (or now it states Titre de Sejour) with the express request for the TDS to allow the holder to work whilst in France. So no change there.

On talking further, I asked what the French would make of the fact that many thousands of EU immigrants would be walking around with no official ID and her thoughts were that something else would soon be along, as for the moment France were following the Brussels line!

If you think a passport will suffice, don't forget it has no address in France on it, UK European driving permit that ex pats now more commonly use in France, has no French address and, I can't believe that carrying a current utility bill around, will be the way forward.

So sorry whatever "Canary" reckons further down, my feelings are that this issue will create more problems than it might appear to solve and run for a while yet.

Miki

[ckenway]

What I see here is two groups of people regardless of French law and when and where a CDS is required arguing about whether one should carry some form of ID or not. Some people feel that a passport is OK others prefer something a little smaller i.e. a CDS.

It really is a matter of choice what you do providing you are within the current framework of French law even if it (French law) is not within the scope of EU community law on this issue with regards to EU citizens.

At some stage the EU passport in its current form will disappear and be replaced with something smaller and far more intelligent. More along the lines of smart cards similar in size to current credit cards and combine more information such as social entitlement (health cover etc) and driving licence and even a link to medical history, this is not so much as if but when it happens. The current EU passport is a form of voluntary (there is no legal requirement to have a passport within the EU state) EU identity card although it does not carry your current address which in many cases is a minimum requirement for buying many high value things or services. Which ever way you look at it the EU passport is a form of ID card.

So if you get down to basics and accept the current French ruling on CDS we are split into these two groups, those that agree to a EU identity card and those that dont. No doubt the old civil liberty lot will come out in favour of no ID card but I feel that most ordinary law abiding people would find it no problem and possibly an advantage in every day life to have one.

[Val_2]

Just to show how different the depts are, elderley friends who have lived here for 12 years discovered their last CDS expired last Dec. They went to the mairie,who phoned the prefecture in Quimper and were told it was mandatory without any doubt they MUST renew their CDS because they are retired and on english pensions etc.

[Skrumpy]

We are currently going through the process of changing UK Driving Licences for French; the Sous Prefecture in St Lo has insisted on a Carte de Sejour despite being shown a copy of the actual change to French Law saying they are no longer required for EU citizens. British Passports were not an acceptable substitute; so its off to get a CdS then!

[Zippy]

Solution to save 33 euros.
1) Complete renewal form on line on Passport Office web site with UK address.
2) Have completed form sent out to France.
3) Sign form and return to UK with fee and old passport.
4) New passport arrives to UK adress within 3 weeks.
Result 33 euros richer! (less a few stamps).