Residence Permit

[Morris]

Hello,

Anyone know whether a residence permit is required by UK nationals who are resident in the UK but stay in France for six months or so ?

I have been told that a stay of longer than three months requires a permit. If this is the case, is it permited to make a quick trip to the UK before the three months are up and hence start the three month period rolling agian ? As somebody who hates forms, this would be a price worth paying...

I ask this as I'm living in the Cote d'Azur at the moment, having moved in mid august, with the intention of returning to the UK in Feb or March of next year. I am tax resident in the UK, and I do not wish to become a permanent French resident.

Thanks in advance.

[Liz]

Somewhere in this Forum there must be loads of discussion on this topic, but goodness knows where it went. The Carte de Sejour has been done away with for EU nationals.

Liz (29)

[Morris]

"The Carte de Sejour has been done away with for EU nationals."

 

Blimey !

Could anyone else confirm this ?

 

[Morris]

Just found this, so maybe it is no longer required...

 

http://riviera.angloinfo.com/information/1/cds.asp

[Will]

It is quite correct that the legal requirement for titre de sejour has been abolished for EU citizens. However you are still required to carry photographic proof of identity and address, which for citizens of UK (which does not have a national ID card) means passport and utility bill.

Titre de sejour will still be issued by your local prefecture if you require it and can supply the necessary documentation - it does ease the process of dealing with bureaucracy, for example if you want to work in France, or claim benefits.

[Teamedup]

Also residency is not the same in both countries. I'm sure Will the Conq posted about these differences recently.

[Will]

Yes, that's right. It's getting off the carte de sejour subject a bit.

I'm reliably informed that as long as you are in UK for more than half the tax year (183 days minimum) you should retain your UK tax residency, though you can also be regarded as resident in France for tax purposes if you meet one of several conditions, such as your main home, your family, or your main economic activity being in France. You can be tax 'resident' in more than one country though you can only be 'domiciled' in one. Where there is a dual taxation agreement, as between UK and France, things can be worked in your favour as far as capital gains tax and taking advantage of favourable tax regimes is concerned, though obviously you need to take expert advice - not just rely on what I or others may say on forums like this.

[Morris]

Thanks for replies.

 

One thing though.. when I pop over to UK from France, (or pop over to the South of France whilst living in the UK), as far as I'm aware, nobody makes a record of this My passport is often not even opened.

So, how exactly does the Revenue go about deciding if I'm resident for tax purposes ?

Or is it down to my (assumed...) honesty perhaps ?

 

 

[Penny29]

Hi,

Speaking as an (ex) tax official (don't throw the tomatoes at me just yet!) I would have to say it doesn't work like that (either side of the Channel) - the Revenue does not have to prove your residency YOU have to prove you were NOT resident if claiming that tax is not payable.

I can't speak for France but in the UK a claim of non-residency would require the claimant to possibly undergo a lengthy interview, answer dozens of questions, fill in numerous forms plus produce bank statements, travel tickets etc to prove the number of days outside of the UK.

The Inland Revenue NEVER assumes people are honest!!!

 

 

[Morris]

Thanks for the reply Penny, but doesn't the whole idea of self - asessment rely on the average Joe being honest ?

[Richardbk]

[quote]Thanks for replies. One thing though.. when I pop over to UK from France, (or pop over to the South of France whilst living in the UK), as far as I'm aware, nobody makes a record of this My passpo...[/quote]

The inland revenue have fairly sophistciated IT systems for checking whether or not you have been living where you say you have and will run various checks if they believe you have been cheating the system. E.g airport / ferry port , car plate and  ticket checks - checks on where credit cards were used etc . In the case of travel tickets they will even run checks against similar or slightly mispelt names to see if you tried to dodge the system.

regs

 

Richard

 

[Val_2]

Yes I can confirm this is true. Back in 92 when the local IR where we were living in the UK had a big blitz on all the local self employed, my husband had to go for a grilling and the inspector produced printed proof of all the times we had been crossing the channel to visit our house since 89,the details of the family car which was in my name and many other things. Never ever ever take it for granted that you can hide anything from the authorities in either country, they can dig extremely deep and in places you wouldn't think they go to. A beware for those advertising their french gîtes in Daltons Weekly etc and not declaring earnings etc.

[Battypuss]

A Carte de Sejour is not required any longer, but it sure makes things easier. I have just spent 2 hours getting one for a new family in France. The lady at the Prefecture knows me, so she ignored half the boxes and just issued the temporary one...we would have been quicker, but there was some idiot in the queue ahead of us!