commercial agent status no longer valid....

[rocky]

Can any of the commercial agents out there currently working for an estate agency in France please shed light on this for me?  I currently work for a French estate agent as an agent commercial, have done for the past two years, and was surprised to learn that when a Belgian colleague of mine attempted to register the other day with the greffe, she was refused because apparently there is a new law stating that this status is no longer legal!  Anyone else heard about this?  And if so, what is being proposed for those currently working under this status?

 

I've been told that my carte grise will not be renewed, and that come the 1st of January, I may be considered to be working illegally.  Now obviously this affects all French immobiliers, so I don't quite understand.  Any input would be appreciated!

[Val_2]

Rocky you are a little confused here. Your carte grise is the vehicle ownership logbook,so I think you mean Carte de Séjour and yes, they are not be dished out for european nationals anymore although you can demand your local Prefecture issue you with a Titre de Séjour if your employer demands one.

[rocky]

When you register with the Greffe as a commercial agent, you are given a little index size grey card (often called a carte grise), stating who you work with (or who holds the carte professionnelle).  Should anyone ask to see my credentials, this is what I am meant to show them.

[BJSLIV]

Val I think Rocky is referring to the Carte (Grise or otherwise) that is needed to act as an Agent Commercial.

In fact there was a court ruling earlier this year that said that it was "incompatible" for an Estate Agent to employ Agents Commerciales. The only legal way was to take on salaried employees. Its clearly a hot topic , and will no doubt drag on for months until the law changes back again. But for the present Prefecture are refusing to issue or renew such cards.

The some of the debate can be found at :

http://www.universimmo.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19061

The comments posted on the 11 November summarise the thinking behind the decision pretty clearly. (See especially the post by PF Barde at 22:22:14  11 November 2004)

Another Reference This time from an association of  estate agents:

http://agents-associes.hautetfort.com/archive/2004/08/26/pourquoi_le_statut_d_agent_com.html

[Russethouse]

Would this effect people such as 'Grannies' ?

[Chouette]

I think it depends on which department you are in too.  The immobiliere a friend of mine works for has all his agents working on a commission only, Agent Commercial basis.  Another immobiliere though, in the next department down from here has to 'employ' his agents and pay them a salary.  It's all very confusing

BTW Val-2, in immobiliere speak, the certificate of registration is known as a 'carte grise'. 

[Val_2]

Point taken and appreciate the advice. I imagine all the rogues that we know of operating round here as agents don't have such a carte or anything else if all the complaints are to go by.

[Will]

There always have been very wide regional variations in how the estate agency business is regulated in France. The book Selling French Dreams by Alan Biggins tells how he was forced, through doubts over the legalities of what he was doing (reinforced through the actions of the agents employing him), to cease being an agent commercial in Manche, yet if he had crossed the border into Ile-et-Vilaine, he would have been perfectly OK. In some places an agent commercial works as a sort of property-finding and relocation service, dealing with several estate agencies and helping the client through the moving process, while in others the AC is virtually a self-employed representative of a single agency.

There were fears, even before the judgement mentioned above, that the whole of France might adopt a single, strict, interpretation of the regulations - perhaps all ACs would have to go along with the Normandy system - I don't know if the judgement will or will not make this more likely to happen. I rather suspect, and hope, it doesn't. If so, it could make life difficult for organisations like the Granny network, though there is of course a Normandy Granny managing to operate legally.

The links given by BJSLIV are indeed interesting. But remember that the first is to a forum, like this, and what you are reading, as here, are individual interpretations and opinions which don't necessarily have any legal validity. In fact until the legal process is completed there can't be any firm judgement and many prefectures will be playing safe by not issuing authorisations (though some are consequently turning a blind eye to operating without authorisation, which could be an even more dangerous and confusing situation). The links touch on some other related issues, like the fees charged by agents and the remuneration of their staff, so is well worth a read if you can understand French reasonably well.

I do get the impression that, however seriously it affects agents commerciaux, the profession isn't taking the issue all that seriously. Certainly FNAIM, one of the biggest professional organisations, has been very quiet on the controversy. So maybe it is a non-issue?

Mrs Conq is a salaried negotiatrice with an agency office in Manche which doesn't use ACs, so we aren't totally au fait with all the intimate details of the AC business; we do though get to hear of plenty of rumours. One thing that is certain is that there are several so-called agents operating outside the system in this area, so anybody searching for a house in Manche/Orne/Calvados/Mayenne would be well advised to quiz the agent about their carte professionelle status, and not believe what one agent says about another. A respectable, professional agent (they do exist) will never blatantly slag off another, whilst we know for a fact that the rogues tell all sorts of lies about the properly-established companies.