More inheritance questions

[Guest CFrost]

'The only criteria for changing marriage regime is to have agreement from the previous and existing children'

Do you have any details, references, typical wording etc in relation to obtaining and submitting this agreement Richard,  all our children are adults.  I am loathe to give up the chase as property wise our tontine will currently cost the survivor in excess of 30000€ in taxes and the C.U nothing apart from the cost of change.

Regards

[benson]

So everything is good for me with Tontine apart from the fact that One or the other of us will have to pay huge inheritance tax

Would changing to CU solve the tax problem but still retain the line of succession we want (as posted above)

[Richardbk]

[quote]'The only criteria for changing marriage regime is to have agreement from the previous and existing children' Do you have any details, references, typical wording etc in relation to obtaining and s...[/quote]

You should really discuss this with a competent notaire and lawyer who would be able to run through the risks with you - I am not a lawyer or notaire - we have been advised by team a of notaires that our organisation provides to us. All our children are under 18 and in fact they could have made money from converting us to a CU, but they consider that the risk for us and them is too high.The same is the case for colleagues that are unable to get permission from their children >18. You will find much supporting evidence on the web and  in the libraries etc. Deal only with notaires that have a real understanding of international marriage, inheritances etc. These you will generally only find in Paris and perhaps a few other large cities.

The main problem here is that the easy change of marriage laws introduced by France for foreigners are not inline with inheritance laws - or rather if taken up in some cases they run the risk of attempting to by pass them either deliberately or inadvertently.

Note also that the use of a tontine clause that is considered to have deliberately disinherited children can also be considered null an void by a judge, assuming that the children take the case to court. Again this is a question of risk. Usually a tontine is used for unmarried couples (not PACS) - it is basically a financial instrument to reduce the tax on transfers - up to the same ceiling as that used for inheritance between husband and wife. It can be used for property but as you say there are substantial tax issues for mid-high value properties.

At the end of the day I guess the only real way around inheritance problems this is to ensure that you continue to have good relationships with your children and are able to talk it through.

best regards

Richard

 

 

[pooch]

Well, although we have shelved the idea of buying in France for now - all is not lost. We have asked several well abled people to look into the possibility of forming a UK based LTD company in order to do so. It is possible but I don't know how. One is a tax inspector, one is a french solicitor and the other an accountant.

This will take some time to get it right but when I know any more, I will start a new topic. Watch this space. If anyone is interested in being more closely involved, then please email me through the forum and I will keep in touch directly. Just let me know your email address......

[Teamedup]

Richardbk, that information was given to me several years ago. I would have gone into it in far more detail if we had had the money to do anything about it then, but as it happened we didn't.

For anyone who thinks that this is a minefield for us, the french suffer as badly with it and there are many families with children from other relationships here to.

A company? Don't think that a french notaire would register a private dwelling to a uk ltd company and the british tax man would tax it as some asset or other. If it were that easy we would all be doing it.

[Teamedup]

Richardbk, that information was given to me several years ago. I would have gone into it in far more detail if we had had the money to do anything about it then, but as it happened we didn't.

For anyone who thinks that this is a minefield for us, the french suffer as badly with it and there are many families with children from other relationships here to.

A company? Don't think that a french notaire would register a private dwelling to a uk ltd company and the british tax man would tax it as some asset or other. If it were that easy we would all be doing it.

[cyclebum]

Double wammy for me. Not married. My young lady has daughter from previous marriage. I have no sprogs so my parents who disinherited me get a chunk of the haul. Assuming we live we will sell in a few years, by a camper and become old age hippies. One could stay/ go to Uk, but according to plod it is awash with terrosists. There are zillions of baseball capped Youths that destroy everything in their path. Lottery sized council tax bills, oh and John Prescott.

[WJT]

Hi, just received our CU in the post today from our Notaire. I thought I would post a section of the contract regarding the death of one spouse on here because it may be of interest. I did use the translation service offered on the LF first page but thought I would leave the translation up to you.

 

S'APPLIOUANT AUX IMMEUBLES SITUES EN FRANCE

M. et Mme (------) restent soumis a la loi anglaise et a la separation de biens.

Toutefois, en application de 1'article 6, alinea 3, de la Convention de La Haye precitee, M. et Mme (-------) declarent vouloir que 1'ensemble des biens immobiliers dont ils sont et se rendront proprietaires en France soient soumis a la loi fran9aise et au regime de la communaute universelle de biens tel qu'il resulte de 1'article 1526 du Code Civil Fran9ais.

CLAUSE D'ATTRIBUTION INTEGRALE

Au surplus, et pour le cas de dissolution du mariage par le deces de 1'un des epoux, tons les biens immobiliers situes en France qui feront partie de la communaute universelle de biens d'entre M. et Mme ( ------ ) appartiendront au survivant des epoux.

Cette stipulation s'appliquera, qu'il existe ou non des enfants du mariage d'entre M. et Mme (------), et 1'epoux survivant sera seul tenu d'acquitter toutes les dettes afferentes auxdits biens.

MENTION

Mention de cette declaration sera portee a la demande des epoux ou de 1'un d'eux au repertoire civil annexe tenu aupres du service central d'etat civil du ministere des affaires etrangeres a NANTES, conformement a 1'alinea 2 de 1'article 1303-3, alinea 2, du Nouveau Code de Procedure Civile.

FRAIS

Tous les frais, droits et emoluments des presentes seront supportes par M. et Mme (------) qui s'y obligent.

POUVOIRS

Les parties donnent tous pouvoirs a tous clercs et employes de 1'Office Notarial denomme en tete des presentes, avec faculte d'agir ensemble ou separement, a 1'effet de faire toute demarche et toute formalite qui serait necessaire aupres du Service Central d'Etat Civil du ministere des affaires etrangeres a NANTES.