Getting my oats

[The Riff-Raff Element]

Interesting post Mr Gluestick!

Especially about the B12 - as far as I know the only truely reliable non-animal source is Marmite (or similar), which if spread on wholemeal toast must rank as a good breakfast.

Two rather good books on food production that influenced a lot of my thinking about food were:

"So Shall We Reap" by Colin Tudge (who also wrote an excellent tome about trees) and the rather naffly titled but nonetheless highly informative "We Want Real Food" by Graham Harvey. No fad diets (actually very little advice about diet at all) but rather a look at how modern approaches to farming and food processing are not doing us any favours at all.

An American book -"Fat Land" by Greg Critser is another one that looks at the effects of processed foodstuffs (hydrogenated fats, etc) on the human organism. and is well worth looking at.

Gosh, I wonder what's for lunch. [:P]

[Nickel]

this is such an enormous topic and I entirely agree with the holistic approach you mention.

The problem is that the information is out there - we know we shouldn't smoke, only drink in moderation,eat a healthy balanced diet and exercise - however,this message does not seem to get across as seen by  the rates of obesity which are rising alarmingly and it is these people who are prone to Cardiovascular disease which of course kills more men and women in UK than any other disease. Although I have alluded to the the fact that statins are probably losing their 'wonder' drug epithet  it is a drug that has probably saved many lives.

So I have to say it has a major role to play in established coronary heart disease and those with a high risk factor of any cardiovascular disease. Generic statins are available and they should be prescribed under NICE guidlines rather than what any pharmaceutical company might suggest ( or wish!)

There is also far too much marketing of unhealthy foods targeting children - I think something like 80% of all adverts targeting children is for foods high in fat salt and sugar!

OK I'll stop now .....

 

[Gluestick]

But what is a "Healthy" amount to drink?

Interesting that the "experts" who set the core guidelines in units have recently admitted that they simply grabbed a number from the air, because they had to state something!

And that all provided alchohol is not contra-indicated by some conflicting organic extant complaint, then probably up to one bottle of wine per day might (I stress might!) be OK: and that "Moderate" drinking in fact demonstrates greater longevity: and so on!

Quite obviously, supressing a natural body product such as lipids can create other and dangerous effects: which is why the "One Size Fits All" shotgun approach of current UK medicine, on the back of government initiatives is so dangerous.

Back in the late 60s/early 70s, it was apparent that intensive rearing of bovine herbivores had changed their core body fats from Poly Unsaturate to Poly Saturate. Pig fat has increased by over 1,200% because of intensive rearing and breeding. Same with battery chickens. Yet Deffra pay British farmers subsidies (Under Set Aside) NOT to farm 33% of their arable land!

And so it goes on.

Most interesting to me was the long-term study carried out over 20 years ago by the AHA (American heart Association) wherein a group of doctors and nurses (chosen since they were more likely to stick to the regimes) were divided in to two groups: one stayed eating "Normally" in standard US style. The other set were on a reduced fat, low meat etc diet.

After 20 years there was little difference between them in terms of CHD and vascular disease: however, the low fat control group demonstrated a far higher incidence of bowel cancers!

Seventeen years ago, my GP who is a friend, told me about a WHO study which evaluated groups of people in all Western states for CHD et al. One of the groups selected was a local social housing site not too far from me in the UK. His practice covers the area (odd area!) and he was t6hus involved.

The findings stood the experts on their head! The social housing area (which I happen to know is at the top level of deprivation and poverty in Europe-wide terms, since I chaired, subsequently, an Urban Regeneration Programme, locally and had access to all the demographics, which were obviously essential to the core of the project), demonstrated little or no CHD, vascular Disease and Stroke etc; yet the residents smoked like chimneys, drank like fish and food was something they ate invariably with chips fried in beef dripping or lard! But, since none of them worked and relied solely on state benefit - when they weren't "Inside"! - they suffered no stress.

Stress: tension; synthetic lifestyle. That's the killer. Plus, of course, pollution in the home, garage, garden, air, office, water and the very food most of us are compelled to eat, like veggies and fruit. Chemicals.

And stress and pollution have caused an epidemic rise in respiratory ailments like asthma and allergic rhihnitis etc.

The so-called "School Run" instead of walking the kids half a mile and back: driving to the paper shop or chippie.

The core changes in lifestyle between my grandparents and us is simple: and wholly significant: excercising in a gym! Rather than riding a bike to and from work. Or playing a sport in the fresh, wholesome open air. Changes in diet. Noise, telephones, manic roads.

It is all obvious really.

 

[Patf]

Although all the comments about dietary and lifestyle ways to combat buildup of cholesterol give useful, even essential advice, I don't think anyone has mentioned the genetic component. I was very shocked to have a crise cardiaque last year, as we eat healthily, hardly drink alcohol, don't smoke (since 15 years ) and have regular exercise. Stress levels quite low too apart from the occasional family panic. The specialist asked me about family history of heart disease and I did some research and found many cases, paricularly paternal grandfather who I'm supposed to ressemble (!) and maternal grandmother. So if you have a family history you need to be extra careful and perhaps take statins as a preventive measure. And Gluestick - in spite of the less stressed lifestyle of grandparents, they all died in their early 70s, 2 from heart attacks and 2 from strokes.

[Nickel]

Patf

you are absolutely correct regarding a genetic component and a family  history where it is known does form  part of the Risk Assessment for Cardiovascular disease ( as well as many others)

[Gluestick]

Yes, Patf: of course that is correct.

There is an hereditary component in a number of diseases, CHD/strokes amongst them.

My late mother lived to 96: all her family, were long-lived too, including both parents. My father probably suffered a stroke, but as he fell down some stairs and injured his head it was never certain.

His mother also died early from stroke: however, she was a grossly overweight women given to a fierce disposition and temper tantrums!

His brother and sister lived long. As did his father.

I suffered my MI 16 years ago at 49. Stress.................................

I do hope Patf that you have now recovered and are doing well.

From personal experience, I would state that any man or women past probably 40 who can afford it demands a CAT Calcium Score (which examines and evaluates the calcium deposition in the arteries).

And if the score is significantly high, a coronary angiogram, which can demonstrate problems well before they reach a crisis level.

One final point: whilst hereditary predisposition to -e.g.- CHD/Stroke is accepted, it fails to explain, properly the epidemic rise in this disease in the West since circa 1960, since the hereditary component would have applied in any case as a fairly low incidence.

 

[Patf]

Thanks for the good wishes - yes thank God I'm keeping well, as long as I take the tablets. I had stents put in. I expect you too have to take medication and hope you are well too. It's frightening to think that if this had happened 50 years ago we probably wouldn't have recovered. Make the most of it while we can.

[Gluestick]

Many thanks for your kind comments, Patf. Yes, not too bad now.

I was very lucky, too. For many years afterwards, all I took was a dispersible aspirin each day. I had an angiogram and then shortly after a balloon angioplasty which back in 1991 was still not common. In those days, stents tended to be used more for veins.

Now, with increasing age - and stress! -  my medication count has increased! Hopefully, that will change in the near future: retirement and France!

Stay well.

 

[Chris Head]

There's some really good reading and advice here...being at the tender age of 42 I guess it's time to be thinking about stuff like this? My diet is as good as it can be I think...I do alot of exercise but not enough cardiovascular work...although that is changing. The nutrition still confuses me a little although I've researched it; I need in the region of 4000 calories a day and am very careful about the type of carbohydrate and protein I eat and try to ensure that vitamin and mineral requirements are amply met...Never had a cholesterol test or any other tests but off to Docs next week...thanks!

 

 

[Gluestick]

Heavy aerobic exercise and heavy joint-tendon- cartilage strain are not good, Chris!

Probably the best exercise of all is brisk walking, making sure it's robust enough to make you puff and thus raise the heart rate and respiration rate. Get some long tabbing in, Mate!

Swimming is also excellent (In fact after my MI that's how I regained a very good level of physical fitness: miles each week of back butterfly, or Old English Backstroke. I swam each and every day and some days twice).

Swimming is good since bodyweight is supported and thus doesn't cause muscle and joint strain: and it's excellent aerobic exercise, too.

Diet is obviously key. Mainly, no processed food and no junk! A good balance of good carbs (oats are brilliant as is maze), good fats, like virgin olive oil and good protein; remembering that pulses such as lentils are rich in good protein; as are sardines and pilchards.

Capesy (Jeff Capes the ex copper and olympic hammer thrower) used to train on pilchards! High in omega3 oils and protein. I bumped into Capesy in the loos at Heathrow once. He was HUGE!

Nothing wrong with good lean beef here and there: everything wrong with stuff like bacon and ham: soaked in Nitrates and Nitrites: poison.

Eggs are OK if you are working it off: and if you need 4,000 calories per day you must be!

Keep well, Chris.

 

[Chris Head]

I do all of the above GS...plus skipping, now that is good fun and not too heavy on the joints...the only problem is the sheer cost in terms of time needed plus money spent on good food. Fish is a staple favourite, in the region of 4 kilos a week, plus alot of chicken, pulses, fruit & veg...rice, couscous wholemeal pasta & bread are the favourite carb sources and of course the porridge & juice in the mornings (get a juicer...saves a fortune).

You talk about stress GS...when you're really stressed out & in the thick of it, it's difficult to identify but the effects can be pretty bad, leading you habits that you think are relieving the stress, the booze, comfort eating etc. Stress also directly affects the relationships we have and our immune systems too...I've had four months of arret de travail so far and have learned things that have probably saved me from being in the grave very prematurely. For me personally the only way forward is to work my body, the mind sorta seems to follow.

Changing your health if you're not happy with it is like giving up the fags or the booze...it seems like a massive mountain but with patience and persistence it does happen...and one day you start waking up thinking...jeeeez i feel good!...and it just gets better the more you work at it, the masochists out there are onto a winner!

Great thread!

[Gluestick]

I must find a copy of Sir Ranulf Fines new book: one of my personal heroes! He used to live up the road to a chum of mine on Exmoor; he'd often see Ran running across the moor suddenly appearing out of the mist!

Seven marathons in seven days, just after a quadruple bypass!

I have his book on his and Dr Mike Stroud's walk across Antartica and what a fantastic story that was!

At 50 he had the body and physiology of a man in his late 20s: which makes you think!

Chris, look into either yoga or meditation. One of my dearest friends (who was in 21 Regiment and as you must, got through selection and was a Triathlete) suffered some serious health probs, due to inner stress.

Conquered it by adopting Eastern regimes of meditation and etc.

Take a shufty!

 

 

[mint]

Chris & Gluey

Inspirational or what?  Thanks, guys, love your posts.  I'm still winning on the booze.  Had TWO whole days without booze last week.  Had coupla glasses yesterday and today; visitors, neighbours, etc.  But will be no-booze day again tomorrow.  Can do booze free if I set my mind to it.  Not too bad as this is Week 6 since we last discussed all this stuff and I have managed to stay off spirits and lunch time drinking.  In fact, although not wanting to be too complacent, I'm moderately encouraged! 

[Gluestick]

[quote]I'm moderately encouraged! 

[/quote]

As you ought to be, Sweets!

Great work! Keep it up!

 

[Chris Head]

People like Sir Ranulf are incredible people...but he's only a man...but a man who's mind takes him to where he wants to be...I agree with the yoga/meditation stuff GS, unfortunately it's thin on the ground in deepest 23 (any teachers in 23 reading?). Most of our battles are in our minds anyway, the actual doing is the easy bit; anyone can put one foot in front of another; or lift a weight...sending the mind past the discomfort or pain is the key; the same as stopping anything like the drink or fags, or being disciplined with nutrition...all in the mind. Sometimes life just screws you over & you have to take control of it and kick the crap out until you're left with what you want. I used up my ninth life four months ago, this is the last one & it's gonna count. Your mate must've had a stressful day job GS?

You're doing good Sweet...build on each step and focus forward...look for the next achievement, something else you want to do and tackle it the same way as you are the drink. No going back eh?

[Gluestick]

In fact I had this wrong: it's Sir Ranulph Fiennes and his autobiography is called "Mad, Bad and Dangerous to Know"!

Agree about the first, tough bit, Chris.

As Mao said "On a journey of Ten Thousand Miles the first step is the hardest".

In point of fact my chum developed his extreme inner tension and stress from sheer frustration: a brilliantly clever man (speaks four languages, fluently) and a very accomplished academic. His health problems erupted in complaints such as galloping excema and other allergic illnesses weakening his core resistance and immune system.

All in the mind.....................................