Naive?

[Evianers]

Perhaps we are a little naive? Could other members please give their opinion?

A B+B not too distant from us, actually in the Ain, offers overnight accommodation for a price including breakfast of €60 per night, with dinner at a cost of €24 per person. This strikes us as somewhat high, in that a hotel is not much more. Added up, a three day stay comes to quite a lot!

[Bugsy]

A tad high but it depends on the accomodation offered I guess.

50/55€ a night per room (2 persons) and 17.50€ each for evening meal is the norm around here

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[idun]

When I watch 4 in a Bed, I often think that B&B prices are incredibly high, in both France and the UK. Doesn't strike me as that expensive. Although frankly if I was going to the Ain, I reckon I would be looking for some nice restos, rather than pay so much in the B&B.

Have you checked hotel prices???

 

 

 

 

[Quillan]

Well it depends what you are offering. We have two rooms (out of four) that are sold at €60 per night in high season and €50 per night in low season. As you are probably aware only hotels can charge separately for breakfast. B&B's (or should I say Chambres D'hotes) under French law must include breakfast in their price. Evening meals, well we charge €25 per head but that is four course with aperitif and wine. Our local hotel, for the same quality room charges the same price plus 12 Euros each for breakfast. Evening meals, three course without wine etc are €23 per person so we are cheaper.

You are buying something quite different with a B&B that your not getting with an hotel mainly a very high quality of personal service. The other thing is to do with capacity and number of rooms sold but it is difficult to explain to those not in the business. Basically hotels can run at a lower occupation percentage than a B&B and still make a small profit and that is why we are in it, for the profit, we are not charity organisations. Running costs is another problem faced by B&B's, it actually costs a B&B owner more off season than in season due to heating etc for which there are minimum requirements. In a logical world the cost of rooms should actually go up in winter and not down but we all know it does not work like that.

All that said we have started a price war with our local competitors with the aim of getting people to come back next year for longer. In other words giving them a taste of what we offer. Basically we have reduced our prices, with the exception of Christmas, by over 40% and boy has that worked, nobody can get near us with price. Basically over October, November, and the first 20 days in December our occupation rate has gone up by over 70%. There is a catch in doing this which is we are only making a few euros profit per room after taking in to account the extra costs involved (heating and having to use the tumble drier for instance). That said we have a total of 15 reservations for next year of an average of 8 nights from those that have stayed in this period. That's where we hope to recuperate the money we have 'lost' in these three months. Why did we do this,well we are normally closed for November and December so we have nothing to loose and once the numbers are crunched it costs us nothing and we had nothing before.

[Judith]

Q

Thanks for that excellent explanation.  Makes a lot of sense,  though I was thinking that the prices posted by the OP were not unreasonable, for most reasonable quality B&B these days, bearing in mind we are talking per room and not per person (I presume). 

One of our local restauranteurs who does stay open all year, says that if he is not open, he cannot make any money, and there are still bills to pay.  This year, for the first time, he has decided to close in February, as that is the  month he cannot pay his bills even if he stays open as it is a very slow month, but whilst ever he can cover his bills with his customers during the year, open he will stay.

I have never understood why restaurants and  hotels close around here in the summer (for their annual hols - of course) when it is really the only time you can make a bit of money in this tourist orientated area.

He is also quite scathing of some of the other restaurants who are struggling because they have not learnt to price their product properly ... low prices are fine, if they are there for a purpose, but as you have quite rightly said, can only be continued, if you get something back for them ... in your case, repeat bookings.

Which reminds me - I'll be looking for a B&B somewhere not too far away for our week away from the local festival in August  ... I shall keep  you in mind - quite definitely (as you are just far enough away, but not too far!!)

[Quillan]

Your be more than welcome Judith. Bums in bed, money in bank that's what I say. We are full for the TDF in July (fifth and sixth) now but are still advertising for these dates as we push people on to our friends up the road.

I always remember many years ago attending my first regional AGM for Clévacance members. Basically there was talk about the weeks people were open. The French said they opened for ten weeks in the summer and the question was muted as to extending it by another two weeks and there was uproar from the French owners. Ten weeks was quite sufficient what with having to deal with all these holiday makers, as if they, the holiday makers, where a necessary evil and a pain in the bottom. A friend said I was being uncommonly quite but I pointed out that plenty of people of all nationalities visit France all year long and if that lot closed then there is more guests and money for me. Attitudes amongst the French owners are still the same in our region so it is no skin off my nose.

[Gardengirl]

I didn't think those prices were out of line. Breakfast is included, which in a hotel can bump the price up quite a bit. Evening meals we've taken in B&Bs have been pretty good value at around the price quoted, and have usually included everything - apero, often home-made (I really fell for a walnut one in a big way - still remember it after about 5 years!) and glasses topped with seconds; maybe 4 courses - starters, mains, cheeses, then pudding, all the wine we wanted, and sometimes coffee.

In fact if a certain B&B in the Drome was still open, we'd be there regularly still. Lovely welcoming people, very good breakfasts, very good rooms and bathrooms, with large pleasant lounge area set aside for guests, with books, games, DVDs etc, excellent meals and pleasant grounds to spend time in under the willow trees or in the sunshine. Their own vegs, and even their own pigs, which we would go to see, then eat at a later date.

[Quillan]

I was thinking whilst ironing the bedroom sheets (no sending them out Gods knows where and who) that the biggest difference  between a hotel and B&B is that hotels are typically managed and the owner is hard to find.

With B&B's it is always the owner(s) that you see, it's their business and as such they take more care. Based on that I had a browse on Tripadvisor and noted that only with one or two exceptions B&B's rate higher on average than hotels for customer satisfaction and have very few 'average', 'poor' or 'terrible' reviews by comparison. I think this is because it is the owners business and they are very 'hands on' taking more pride in the quality of their rooms, bathrooms etc and the level of personalised service they offer. We always make a final check on our rooms before the guest arrives. I doubt very few hotel managers or owners go to such lengths, I suspect they never set foot in the rooms unless there is a problem.

[mint]

We've stayed in quite a few French hotels and B & B's and 2 gites.  No, I think those prices are perfectly reasonable and, if I liked the place, I'd pay those prices without hesitation. 

[PaulT]

Isn't there also a difference in the friendliness?

We are travelling down at the beginning of January and are breaking our journey and staying in one of the budget hotels - 25 euros.

Now we will have eaten somewhere on the Autoroute so all we want is a bed and as soon as we are awake will leave, will not want breakfast then and will stop a little later for breakfast.

Now, if we were meandering down then we would be inclined to use a B&B where we could have a leisurely meal, mix with the other guests, have a relaxed breakfast and then go on our way.

Seems to me horses for courses.

Paul

[Quillan]

Exactly Paul.

If your traveling from A to B and require an overnight stop people tend to go for hotels rather than B&B's. If they decide they want to stop in a particular place for a couple of nights they may well choose a B&B.

We do know from experience that one night stays are a pain for B&B owners and some simply won't take them. They are either 'up front' and say a minimum of two nights or lie and say they are 'full', they feel it is a lot of work for just one night. Personally I think they are wrong, over the years we have had quite a few booking a single night with a meal. They may have had a long day, want a meal, a couple of glass's of wine then crash for the night. We actually see this as a business opportunity to promote our B&B and the local region resulting in some staying an extra night or coming back for a holiday later in the year or the following year.

I also look at it from the point of view that if the room was empty anyway its better to have a little money than nothing at all. We have even gone as far as reserving a room for mainly single night stays. If you book the night with a meal you get a ten Euro cash-back if you are a couple or five Euros if it's just one person.

[Judith]

[quote user="Quillan"]

Your be more than welcome Judith. Bums in bed, money in bank that's what I say. We are full for the TDF in July (fifth and sixth) now but are still advertising for these dates as we push people on to our friends up the road.

I always remember many years ago attending my first regional AGM for Clévacance members. Basically there was talk about the weeks people were open. The French said they opened for ten weeks in the summer and the question was muted as to extending it by another two weeks and there was uproar from the French owners. Ten weeks was quite sufficient what with having to deal with all these holiday makers, as if they, the holiday makers, where a necessary evil and a pain in the bottom. A friend said I was being uncommonly quite but I pointed out that plenty of people of all nationalities visit France all year long and if that lot closed then there is more guests and money for me. Attitudes amongst the French owners are still the same in our region so it is no skin off my nose.

[/quote]

Thanks - it will be August not July - so will check a little later as busy, busy today!

It is good to see someone with a good head for business - as re your comment on single nights - if the room is not occupied it doesn't pay you anything ... and better to be filled than not, even at a reduced price - covers some if not all of the costs.  The French are only slowly coming to realise that holiday makers come all year.  The resto owner I  mentioned - is - guess what - Belgian not French.  And his food is gorgeous too!

[Quillan]

The difference between hotels and B&B's is the cost per person to the hotel and to the B&B owner in other words the profit margin. B&B owners have to be competitive yet work for less because their overheads per room are much higher. The main reason for this is because they do not benefit from business costs the same way. We can't for instance go to Brakes Brothers to order our meats because of the quantity. We can't get the discounts for sheets, towels, toilet rolls, toiletries (the ones that everyone nicks) for instance because again we can't buy in such large quantities. A guest for instance who drinks to much red wine then throws up in the bed can potentially cost us (depending on what exactly got caught in the flow) around 200 Euros because we use quality sheets, duvets etc. Hotels can offer specials that greatly undercut a B&B but a B&B owner can't undercut a hotel on special deals, there is only so far they can discount.

As an example one thing that dropped through our letterbox today is the 2013 Taxe de Séjour costs. With the current economic situation everyone is fighting to get business and B&B's have basically been taking business from hotels as they offer better value for money, or so the hotel owners say. Now hotels will pay just 0.25 Euros per day per person in 2013. After much lobbying by the hotels the rates for B&B's in our area have gone up over 400%. We used to pay a fixed sum of 137 Euros per year now we will have to pay a fixed sum of 158 Euros per year plus, being rates three keys by Clévacance and three étoile by the tourist office, we will have to pay 0.67 Euros per person per day. If I use my 2012 figures then my tax would be 947.17 Euros instead of the 137 Euros, if I were an hotel it would cost me 328 Euros, basically a third. In other words if I do the same level of business next year it will cost me another 800 Euros in tax and that's on top of all the other taxes I have to pay. Those B&B's that are 'sailing closed to the wind' financially may find that it a tax to far. The worse thing is in our neck of the woods is that the Tourist Office has taken on two more staff yet we only got three reservations through them this year totalling some 360 Euros, in short they just are not working hard enough for the money paid.