France gets tough but NOT on the economy

[idun]

To be honest, if I still had them, doubt I could get me shorts up past me ankles wooly.[:-))]

And I did get very pleasant smiles, and thinking about it, they were not smirks either. I can look pleasant ........ sometimes[Www]

[mint]

Hey id, I was only joking, in reply to Vivienz!

A serious point though is that it is absolutely GREAT not to worry about getting old or fat or bald or whatever.  It's enough to grow old (I mean not die before you have had a good crack at living) and in more or less good health (though I know you have some health problems).

No longer under pressure because of the job you are in or anything else to look good and spend silly money and time maintaining the required groomed look.

Bring on the burkhas, I say, though how on earth do these women survive in the heat, covered up from head to toe in BLACK in the summer?  If I wore one of those, I am sure I would die inside it and it would become my shroud [:-))]

[idun]

mint, I know you were kidding there was no way I could not see you advocating burkha wear. But these days too many people find fault with themselves when they shouldn't. Seems like far too many feel like this. On tv we see obsession with plastic surgery, boobs, faces, bums, everythings! when there was absolutely nothing wrong with the person in the first place.

Plastic surgeons are wonderful, they do so much good when they are fixing people, and not when they are making a fortune aiding them mutilate themselves.

edit, When I posted I burst out laughing, I have no idea what that extra line is about and it's hilarious as it looks like some sort of plastic surgery/self mutilation direction.[:D]

[Jonzjob]

Well! I think that I can go one better than you refusal in the godshop in Venice Idun. We went to Malta for a week in September and one of the places we visited was my own St Johns's Co Cathedrial in Valetta and one of the police/guide/watcher/whatever ladies sked if I could make my shorts a bit longer! I guess she thought my hairy legs would upset the spirit in there [:-))] So I pulled them down an inch or so and probably had a plumbers cleavage instead [:$][:$]

Some ya win??

[idun]

JJ..... so in my case was it the short shorts or me hairy legs that woz the problem, I had never considered that before...... so there you go![6]

[vivienz]

I remember seeing a photo on t'internet a couple of years ago of Nigella Lawson.  She was on holiday in Dubai and the photo showed her frolicking in the surf wearing.........a burkhini (sp?).  Her face wasn't covered (otherwise, how we have known it was her?) but just about everything else other than her hands was.  Some while later, hubby had too much fun frolicking in the French surf at Cap Ferret and nearly turned himself into a pork scratching - I suggested a male version of the burkhini to him.  He didn't take it well, but I'm sure it was just down to the heatstroke and the offense to his fashion sense.

[Clark Kent II]

[quote user="mint"]

A serious point though is that it is absolutely GREAT not to worry about getting old or fat or bald or whatever.  It's enough to grow old (I mean not die before you have had a good crack at living) and in more or less good health (though I know you have some health problems).

[/quote]

Hooray for some sound common sense.

I was at a talk yesterday at which it was stated that the average age of death for women at the end of the 18th century was about 37.

There is something wrong with a culture that is obsessed with youth and attempts to make youth permanent. We should be proud of our wrinkles - they are evidence of a life which has been lived. They are signs of achievement not decline. I feel very sorry for women and the fashion trap that ensnares them. Fashion has only one purpose - to make women feel bad about themselves so that they can garment manufacturers rich. (The garment manufacturers already benefit from manufacturing conditions that we would consider close to slavery.)

To get back to the burkha.

This is a garment which reflects tribal attitudes of the ownership of women. Its prescription as "Islamic dress" is totally false and reflects the use of religion to control behaviour. (I could go further and suggest that the primary purpose of Abrahamic religion is to control the behaviour of women.)

I respect the right of any woman to wear whatever she wants - but not when it is something that a man says she must wear.

 

Rant over.

[mint]

[quote user="idun"]mint, I know you were kidding there was no way I could not see you advocating burkha wear.[:D]

[/quote]

Au contraire, id, I do NOT advocate the wearing of a burkha.

As said much earlier on in this thread, I consider hiding the face somewhat sinister.

[idun]

sorry mint, I'll edit below, as now you have quoted there is no point in editing the original post, as the quote won't change.

mint, I know you were kidding, there was no way I could see you advocating burkha wear[:D]

Yes, sinister, it is.

[idun]

[quote user="Clark Kent II"]

[quote user="mint"]

A serious point though is that it is absolutely GREAT not to worry about getting old or fat or bald or whatever.  It's enough to grow old (I mean not die before you have had a good crack at living) and in more or less good health (though I know you have some health problems).

[/quote]

Hooray for some sound common sense.

I was at a talk yesterday at which it was stated that the average age of death for women at the end of the 18th century was about 37.

There is something wrong with a culture that is obsessed with youth and attempts to make youth permanent. We should be proud of our wrinkles - they are evidence of a life which has been lived. They are signs of achievement not decline. I feel very sorry for women and the fashion trap that ensnares them. Fashion has only one purpose - to make women feel bad about themselves so that they can garment manufacturers rich. (The garment manufacturers already benefit from manufacturing conditions that we would consider close to slavery.)

To get back to the burkha.

This is a garment which reflects tribal attitudes of the ownership of women. Its prescription as "Islamic dress" is totally false and reflects the use of religion to control behaviour. (I could go further and suggest that the primary purpose of Abrahamic religion is to control the behaviour of women.)

I respect the right of any woman to wear whatever she wants - but not when it is something that a man says she must wear.

 

Rant over.

[/quote]

I am happy enough in my skin, 'all of it'. BUT, I know that I do have some vanity too. Most of us do, don't we?

I can use my Dad as an example as there was a photo of him recently in a local paper without his false teeth and when he realised how it made his face droop and sag has started wearing them again. With the few teeth he has, he manages to eat, it is the asthetics that has made him start using his false teeth again.

As my very very old Aunt used to say (she's well over 100 now), 'bonny gals don't have many wrinkles', which is something I suppose that I would have to take into account if I did ever lose a lot of weight. I am quite happy not having a very wrinkly face and not that bothered about mes rondeurs. I am now asking myself, would I like the body of a 30 year old and a wrinkly face, no actually I wouldn't and that perhaps is my vanity. And yet, IF I had remained slender, then I probably would be just like that, slim and wrinkly, no idea if I would be happy about that, or spending obscene amounts of money on anti wrinkle cream.

[Jonzjob]

2 things here.

"(I could go further and suggest that the primary purpose of Abrahamic religion is to control the behaviour of women.)"

Control the behaviour of women [:-))]

And  "would I like the body of a 30 year old"

Not arf [6] As long as she's tall and attrctive [8-|] Mind you I think that I have the body of a 90 year old? Shame I wasn't born 90 years back though [:(]

[Clark Kent II]

From Wikipedia

However, there are many different interpretations of what "modesty" requires. The Quran admonishes Muslim women to dress modestly and cover their breasts and genitals.^[5] The Quran explicitly states that "O wives of the Prophet, you are not like anyone among women" (Quran 33: 32) and as such has separate rules specifically for the wives of the Prophet.^[6] However, many people often mistake it for rules for all Muslim women.^[6] The Quran has no requirement that women cover their faces with a veil, or cover their bodies with the full-body burqua or chador.^[7] The Qur'an does not mandate or mention Hijab.^[6][8]

[BIG MAC]

Y'know I can't help but think Paris has been trying to dictate to women how they should dress for years...it's the home of Haute couture dontcha know!

My own view is given the choice I would prefer to see ladies in Daisy Dukes or mini skirts but it's not down to me or anyone else to tell them how they should dress and that includes religious zealots.

Women are quite lovely things generally and have been popping out the next generation for generations. Let's celebrate the ladies and get off their case especially you Mullahs.

[YCCMB]

It's strange, though, that in the 21st century there is still a weird preoccupation among men AND women about what women wear.

Is it at all important?

With a very few notable exceptions, likeJ-P Gaultier in a kilt, or Beckham in a sarong, or perhaps the practical discussions way back about turbans and crash helmets, I can't recall any discussion about how men dress.

Is it because men have so little choice as to the variety of what they can wear, or is there still just a rather odd belief that a woman can be defined by her choice of clothes?

[idun]

 I must say that when I see men's clothing from the pre regency period, I think that their clothes were magnificent, well for the wealthier of that period. Daresay my peasant ancestors would not be well dressed or shod or fed!

I have no idea why men did not change their 'fashion' in the early 60's when Carnaby Street was at it's height, even in the 70's what with the bright coloured loons and bright cheese cloth shirts and platform shoes.  But they didn't. I reckon men will do what they will do. They do have fashions that come and go, about 10 years ago it was shaved heads 'beurk' and at the moment fashionable suit jackets are cut short like a ladies jacket, which I personally do not like at all.

[Thibault]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"].

... or is there still just a rather odd belief that a woman can be defined by her choice of clothes?[/quote]

I'm afraid that in some quarters, that is exactly what many believe. We have all read accounts of rape allegations where the way the woman in question dressed seems to be an excuse for what happened to her.

The fact that many foreign cultures require women to be shrouded in vast black garments, their hair covered and in some cases their faces too, says a lot about that culture's view of the weakness of men who it seems are unable to control their lust at the sight of an ankle, bare arm, hair or facial features.

[mint]

You've about summed it all up, Thibault[:)]

[woolybanana]

I think Thibault that it says much more about these cultures inability to educate their men (and women).

The black garment thing is not-Islamic but stems from an "ultra-extreme" view of Islam. When I began working in the Middle East, women did not have to 'black up' though the pressure was gently being applied by such as the Muslim Brotherhood.

Of course, much of this has been reinforced by the belief that all women in the West wander round like the bimbos in Bay Watch - therefore it is anti-Western values.

The battle ground is now Tunisia which had evolved a moderate form of Islam, now under threat from the extermists, ironically having been let loose by the Arab Spring. It maybe that only limited democracy is possible when the opposition does not believe in it.

[Mrs Trellis]

Big Mac, that is so horrendously patronising and sexist - it has to be tongue-in-cheek, surely....?

[Thibault]

Yes, I agree, WB, about the absence of sensible cultural education. Any society which carries the belief that the honour of the family/tribe is vested in the behaviour of its women is bound to abide by restrictive practices in terms of dress and the ability to move outside the home.

This attitude leads to incidents like the recent gang-rape of a woman from a family where one of the men had insulted the honour of another family. This punishment was considered just despite the fact that the crime was committed by a man and the raped woman was innocent.

What is not acceptable, in my opinion, is to bring these cultural values and attitudes to Western societies. As people have pointed out, Western women living in restrictive cultures abroad have to conform to the laws of that land,and therefore so should people living in a Western culture, regardless of where they came from.

[woolybanana]

Yes, agreed, Th.

But what is happening is UK and other countries like France is a direct result of misunderstood multi-culturalism imposed by the (il)liberal left and resulting in such atrocities as Rotherham, and more.

In fact, multi-culturalism died at Rotherham leaving the West with the need to find a new way forward which, given the rise of the extreme right, is not gonna be easy.

[Thibault]

Again, thoroughly in agreement with what you say. I don't know what the answer is. The UK has had decades of multiculturism and despite statements that it has failed from a variety of people, nothing has been done to mitigate its extreme effects.

Nothing could be clearer in pointing up its failure than the events in Rotherham over the years where everyone seemed to either know what was going on, or be in denial about it, but all of them were afraid to act for fear of being accused of racism. How many children suffered and for how long as a result of it?

[woolybanana]

If the concepts of race and culture could be separated, it might help.

[idun]

Yes, I agree, these cultures IMO are saying that if men cannot control their urges, then it is always the woman's fault, and if she is not fully clothed all the time, then she deserves what she gets..............

................ and I have heard it said......... as do the drunken girls who are half clothed and end up getting raped.

Making love is one of life's great pleasures,we never say it on here, but it is. To have sex in the warm embrace of someone one deeply cares for, is wonderful. As is, just plain old intimacy of the simple kind, those little affectionate things like a hand hold, a cuddle, a snuggle, a hug, a little kiss........ 

I do wonder if in these male dominated societies where jealousy must be like a festering infection, that they ever know such joys?

[Jonzjob]

You are an old softy after me own heart and if yer not careful you'll have that Banananana in tears [:$]

As for the fuedal system that run? I would doubt they would know what you are talking about. I may be wrong though [:-))]