Is there a time limit for basic "Green Card" cover when travelling abroad?

[Howie]

The green card info does not state whether it is restricted to x number of days.

If I used my French car in the UK for, say, 4 months, would the basic 3rd-party cover from my French insurer still be valid under the Green Card scheme or is there a time limit, - after which I would not be insured at all?

Thank you.

Howie.

[Boiling a frog]

I know I am stating the obvious but ,ask your assurance, they are the ones to tell you, every assurance coy have different terms

[Pickles]

[quote user="Howie"]If I used my French car in the UK for, say, 4 months, would the basic 3rd-party cover from my French insurer still be valid under the Green Card scheme or is there a time limit, - after which I would not be insured at all?[/quote]

Depends on the insurer: the few that I have looked at have always covered for indefinite periods within Europe.

I note from your details that you share your time between the UK and France. We've covered this before - many times, unfortunately - but you should be aware that if you are UK-resident then you cannot drive a foreign-registered vehicle within the UK (apart from certain, very specific circumstances, which would be very unusual). If you are actually resident in France, please accept my apologies for the digression.

Regards

Pickles

[Sunday Driver]

Basic third party cover is a compulsory component of all insurance policies and is valid for all the countries mentioned on your insurance certificate without any time limit.

Time limited cover may only apply to your other guarantees (ie, the 'comprehensive' part) and are set out in your policy terms and conditions.

Here are mine:

Vous bénéficiez des garanties de votre contrat :

- en France Métropolitaine, dans les départements et territoires d’outre-mer, au cours de déplacements effectués :

- dans les pays de l’Union européenne et dans les états suivants : Vatican, Saint-Marin, Liechtenstein,

- dans les principautés d’Andorre et de Monaco,

- et aussi dans les pays mentionnés et non rayés sur la carte verte (cf définition page 47).

Tout déplacement à l’étranger ou dans un département ou territoire d’outre-mer d’une durée supérieure à 3 mois doit nous être signalé, faute de quoi vous vous exposez à des difficultés en cas de sinistre.

 

 

[Howie]

[quote user="Boiling a frog"]I know I am stating the obvious but ,ask your assurance, they are the ones to tell you, every assurance coy have different terms[/quote]

I understand what you are saying. But, - from what I've read, the green card system is nothing to do with specific insurers. The way I understand it, every insurer must include green card cover for all other participating countries. However, I cannot find any info in the Green Card scheme rules that mention a restricted time period.

??

[Howie]

[quote user="Pickles"]Depends on the insurer: the few that I have looked at have always covered for indefinite periods within Europe.

I note from your details that you share your time between the UK and France. We've covered this before - many times, unfortunately - but you should be aware that if you are UK-resident then you cannot drive a foreign-registered vehicle within the UK (apart from certain, very specific circumstances, which would be very unusual). If you are actually resident in France, please accept my apologies for the digression.

[/quote]

OK. Now, that is totally at odds with what my French insurer has just told me. I will search the other forums here, but my insurer (CA Britline) have just arranged my car insurance at my maison-secondaire and have sold it to me using a number of benefits, - including the very fact that I can also use the car in the UK for up to 60 days with the full benefits of the policy (ie - fully comp). During the conversation, we specifically discussed the fact that I am resident in the UK and the adviser even took my full-time UK job details in order to give me the quote. He accessed all my personal details on his system because of the bank account I have with them, so there can be no doubt about my residential status.

So, if what you say is true, even some insurers don't know it.

[Howie]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

Basic third party cover is a compulsory component of all insurance policies and is valid for all the countries mentioned on your insurance certificate without any time limit.

Time limited cover may only apply to your other guarantees (ie, the 'comprehensive' part) and are set out in your policy terms and conditions.

Here are mine:

Vous bénéficiez des garanties de votre contrat :

- en France Métropolitaine, dans les départements et territoires d’outre-mer, au cours de déplacements effectués :

- dans les pays de l’Union européenne et dans les états suivants : Vatican, Saint-Marin, Liechtenstein,

- dans les principautés d’Andorre et de Monaco,

- et aussi dans les pays mentionnés et non rayés sur la carte verte (cf définition page 47).

Tout déplacement à l’étranger ou dans un département ou territoire d’outre-mer d’une durée supérieure à 3 mois doit nous être signalé, faute de quoi vous vous exposez à des difficultés en cas de sinistre.

[/quote]

Excellent. That's what I thought.

Thanks very much for the info.

[Pickles]

[quote user="Howie"][quote user="Pickles"]Depends on the insurer: the few that I have looked at have always covered for indefinite periods within Europe.

I note from your details that you share your time between the UK and France. We've covered this before - many times, unfortunately - but you should be aware that if you are UK-resident then you cannot drive a foreign-registered vehicle within the UK (apart from certain, very specific circumstances, which would be very unusual). If you are actually resident in France, please accept my apologies for the digression.

[/quote]

OK. Now, that is totally at odds with what my French insurer has just told me. I will search the other forums here, but my insurer (CA Britline) have just arranged my car insurance at my maison-secondaire and have sold it to me using a number of benefits, - including the very fact that I can also use the car in the UK for up to 60 days with the full benefits of the policy (ie - fully comp). During the conversation, we specifically discussed the fact that I am resident in the UK and the adviser even took my full-time UK job details in order to give me the quote. He accessed all my personal details on his system because of the bank account I have with them, so there can be no doubt about my residential status.

So, if what you say is true, even some insurers don't know it.

[/quote]

The issue has nothing at all to do with French insurance requirements, which is why they will not be aware of it. Basically all he is saying is that the policy will cover your car outside of France for up to 60 days, presumably providing the full cover that applies in France (as opposed to the minimum cover that would normally apply).

The issue is UK law, which does not permit a UK resident to drive a foreign-registered car within the UK: otherwise, everyone would do it to avoid the annual UK VED/speeding fines/parking tickets which are only slowly becoming enforceable and collectable abroad.

However, a French resident (friend, neighbour) could drive your French-registered car in the UK.

I stand to be corrected on this but IIRC, a similar provision applies in France (ie French residents cannot drive foreign-registered vehicles).

Regards

Pickles

[Howie]

Sorry ... I've just remembered something: Not only did Britline insurance tell me that I am covered in the UK. They also said that (for up to 60 days), any EU driver may drive my French car in the UK, AND my included French breakdown cover is still valid so that I can claim in France for the car to be recovered to a UK garage for essential repairs. Basically, (as he said), "each and every benefit that you get in France is also included, at the same level, in any green-card registered country for up to 60 days". After that, it is just minimum green-card cover.

[Pickles]

[quote user="Howie"]Sorry ... I've just remembered something: Not only did Britline insurance tell me that I am covered in the UK. They also said that (for up to 60 days), any EU driver may drive my French car in the UK, AND my included French breakdown cover is still valid so that I can claim in France for the car to be recovered to a UK garage for essential repairs. Basically, (as he said), "each and every benefit that you get in France is also included, at the same level, in any green-card registered country for up to 60 days". After that, it is just minimum green-card cover.[/quote]

Yes, any EU driver may well be covered ... but if they are UK resident then they cannot drive the car in the UK ...

The question has been posed to the DVLA in the recent past - indeed I have asked this very question as I had hoped that in extremis I would be able to get back to the UK (where we live) in our French-registered car. The answer was quite unequivocal: the car cannot be driven in the UK by a UK resident unless it is re-registered.

Regards

Pickles

[Sunday Driver]

[quote user="Howie"][quote user="Pickles"]Depends on the insurer: the few that I have looked at have always covered for indefinite periods within Europe.

I note from your details that you share your time between the UK and France. We've covered this before - many times, unfortunately - but you should be aware that if you are UK-resident then you cannot drive a foreign-registered vehicle within the UK (apart from certain, very specific circumstances, which would be very unusual). If you are actually resident in France, please accept my apologies for the digression.

[/quote]

OK. Now, that is totally at odds with what my French insurer has just told me. I will search the other forums here, but my insurer (CA Britline) have just arranged my car insurance at my maison-secondaire and have sold it to me using a number of benefits, - including the very fact that I can also use the car in the UK for up to 60 days with the full benefits of the policy (ie - fully comp). During the conversation, we specifically discussed the fact that I am resident in the UK and the adviser even took my full-time UK job details in order to give me the quote. He accessed all my personal details on his system because of the bank account I have with them, so there can be no doubt about my residential status.

So, if what you say is true, even some insurers don't know it.
[/quote]

Your car insurer is only agreeing the extent of the cover that they are willing to provide when the car is taken outside France.  They may not necessarily be aware of regulations and restrictions which apply in other countries.  As the driver, that's your responsibility.

The DVLA provides the following information about the use of foreign registered vehicles in the UK:

Visitors to the UK can usually use a vehicle displaying foreign number plates for six months. This can be made up of a single visit or several shorter visits in a 12-month period, provided all taxes, including vehicle tax, are paid in the country of origin. 

Where the keeper of the vehicle becomes resident in this country, the vehicle must be immediately registered and licensed in the UK. UK residents are not allowed to use a foreign registered vehicle on UK roads.

 

 

 

[Howie]

[quote user="Pickles"]

Yes, any EU driver may well be covered ... but if they are UK resident then they cannot drive the car in the UK ...

The question has been posed to the DVLA in the recent past - indeed I have asked this very question as I had hoped that in extremis I would be able to get back to the UK (where we live) in our French-registered car. The answer was quite unequivocal: the car cannot be driven in the UK by a UK resident unless it is re-registered.

[/quote]

OK. SORTED!

Thanks for that. I've just realised how it can be done:

I also have a UK car insured in the UK and it allows me, (from memory), to "drive another vehicle with the permission of the owner, - providing that that vehicle is also legal and insured in its own right". So, my UK insurance will cover me, - surely!

[Pickles]

[quote user="Howie"][quote user="Pickles"]

Yes, any EU driver may well be covered ... but if they are UK resident then they cannot drive the car in the UK ...

The question has been posed to the DVLA in the recent past - indeed I have asked this very question as I had hoped that in extremis I would be able to get back to the UK (where we live) in our French-registered car. The answer was quite unequivocal: the car cannot be driven in the UK by a UK resident unless it is re-registered.

[/quote]OK. SORTED!

Thanks for that. I've just realised how it can be done:

I also have a UK car insured in the UK and it allows me, (from memory), to "drive another vehicle with the permission of the owner, - providing that that vehicle is also legal and insured in its own right". So, my UK insurance will cover me, - surely![/quote]

I'm sorry, but I am afraid that you are chasing the wrong hare here. The problem is not insurance. If you were to drive the vehicle in the UK you would be insured under the French policy.

The problem is the law: it is simply not legal for you to drive the foreign-registered car in the UK whilst you are a UK resident. The issue is where the car is REGISTERED and where you reside.

(Edited to add): I'm not trying to be difficult: as noted above, I

would like to be able to drive my French-registered car in the UK but cannot; you need to be aware that if you drive your foreign-registered car within the

UK at all whilst you reside in the UK, you will be committing an offence that could result in the

impounding of your car and considerable inconvenience to you if you are

caught. There is anecdotal evidence of occasional (but severe) problems being encountered by non-UK resident British nationals who have been legally driving their foreign-registered vehicles within the UK but have not been believed by the Police.

Regards

Pickles

[Howie]

[quote user="Pickles"]

I'm sorry, but I am afraid that you are chasing the wrong hare here. The problem is not insurance. If you were to drive the vehicle in the UK you would be insured under the French policy.

The problem is the law: it is simply not legal for you to drive the foreign-registered car in the UK whilst you are a UK resident. The issue is where the car is REGISTERED and where you reside.

(Edited to add): I'm not trying to be difficult: as noted above, I

would like to be able to drive my French-registered car in the UK but cannot; you need to be aware that if you drive your foreign-registered car within the

UK at all you will be committing an offence that could result in the

impounding of your car and considerable inconvenience to you if you are

caught. There is anecdotal evidence of occasional (but severe) problems being encountered by non-UK resident British nationals who have been legally driving their foreign-registered vehicles within the UK but have not been believed by the Police.

Regards

Pickles

[/quote]

Hi again. Yes, I understand really. I think I'll just take my chances regarding prosecution. I'm not too worried about that. the only thing that would concern me is if I caused an accident in the UK which wasn't covered by insurance. Now that I know that my French insurer would cover me, then that's fine.

Appreciate all replies here. And so quickly too!

Howie.

[Will]

The matter of residents driving foreign vehicles is in fact a European-wide rule rather than anything applying specifically to UK or France.

It was introduced, if my information is correct, to trap rather bigger corporate fish on EU-wide fiddles rather than minnows like us. For several reasons it appears, in practice, to be pretty much unenforceable at our level so I don't think it's worth getting too wound up about it.

[Pickles]

[quote user="Will"]The matter of residents driving foreign vehicles is in fact a European-wide rule rather than anything applying specifically to UK or France.

It was introduced, if my information is correct, to trap rather bigger corporate fish on EU-wide fiddles rather than minnows like us. For several reasons it appears, in practice, to be pretty much unenforceable at our level so I don't think it's worth getting too wound up about it.[/quote]

Certainly in the past it has been unenforced, and current actions may be a scratch on the surface, but there is anecdotal evidence of enforcement:

Apart from the incident involving Outcast the other year (those not aware, please do a search), there is this one on another forum:

http://www.eyeonspain.com/spain-magazine/spanish-car-in-uk.aspx

Update on the same incident:

http://www.the-languedoc-page.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3752&highlight=car+automobile+police

And this press release from Northamptonshire police

http://www.northants.police.uk/default.aspx?id=950&datewant=yes

Essentially, ANPR is being used: some of the cars stopped are in the UK for the first time, but what they are really looking for are cars that they think have been here more than 6 months.

With my luck, I know that if I tried to bring my car over, I would be stopped. Certainly. Even if the real chance is less than one in a thousand (and it probably is). I evidently have "guilty" written across my forehead.

Regards

Pickles

[suein56]

[quote user="Will"]

For several reasons it appears, in practice, to be pretty much unenforceable at our level so I don't think it's worth getting too wound up about it.

[/quote]

But it does happen. A couple of friends of ours returned to the UK with their French registered car believing they had 6 months to register it. A friendly word from a local policeman re the regulations when they were out and about in the car was followed a little while later by a visit to their home from 2 policemen who made no bones about what would happen if the car was not sold on or registered pdq.

Sue [:)]

[Will]

On the other hand I know of people (I can think of at least half a dozen) who are UK residents and continuously, in England, use foreign vehicles registered to, for example, French holiday homes or Polish relatives' addresses. I know they are breaking the law, and their cases are rather more clear cut than somebody resuming residence after a spell overseas, but they have ben getting away with it for long periods. They think they are being clever because they avoid the road fund licence, yearly MoT etc.

Sue - Your friends were not in North Wales by any chance [:)]? (just thinking of the Chief Constable's reputation). I notice the other links all refer to Northamptonshire, or a particular incident in that county. There is nothing similar on the equivalent Sussex Police website, for example.

Such draconian action is nothing short of ridiculous, and is effectively an abuse of police powers. I used to travel from France to London regularly, at least once a month, often by car, which because I lived in France had to be French registered. The visits seldom lasted more than a few days each. By the Northampton definition I would have been subject to false arrest for this 'crime'. Similarly with Mrs Will who might bring our French car to England four or five times a year, for 5-10 days each time.

[Pickles]

[quote user="Will"]On the other hand I know of people (I can think of at least half a dozen) who are UK residents and continuously, in England, use foreign vehicles registered to French holiday homes or Polish relatives' addresses. I know they are breaking the law, and their cases are rather more clear cut than somebody resuming residence after a spell overseas, but they have ben getting away with it for long periods. They think they are being clever because they avoid the road fund licence, yearly MoT etc.[/quote]

I think we can summarise as follows:

If you are UK resident it is illegal for you to drive a foreign-registered car in the UK. It may be a ridiculous law; it certainly is inconvenient; but it is the law. The fact that this is evidently being abused by being applied to non-UK-resident UK nationals driving correctly-foreign-registered vehicles within the UK is nothing short of a scandal.

There is NO period of grace if you are UK-resident and bring a foreign-registered car over to the UK (unlike in France, where you would have 30 days or possibly more depending on the vehicle's circumstances)

The chances of being caught are probably very low (but may possibly be increasing, from a very low base)

The result of being caught is extreme inconvenience (immediate seizure/impounding of vehicle) plus whatever fines/points/costs are applied

In bringing this subject up I only wanted to warn the OP that there is an issue with what he was planning on doing - hadn't really intended to cause a fuss ...

Regards

Pickles

[Gardengirl]

There seems to be only a small chance of being stopped, but the consequences could be nasty. Maybe removing your photo from the forum might be an extra safeguard if you're feeling ultra cautious.

Jo

[suein56]

[quote user="Will"]

Sue - Your friends were not in North Wales by any chance [:)]? (just thinking of the Chief Constable's reputation). I notice the other links all refer to Northamptonshire, or a particular incident in that county. There is nothing similar on the equivalent Sussex Police website, for example.

[/quote]

No, Swindon. It must be added that they had been living back in the UK for about 6 weeks when the first policeman had a word with them and after the home visit they panicked slightly and, knowing my OH wanted an automatic they offered the car to him, provided he would go and collect it from the UK. This he did. Sunday Driver helped us re the necessary info to bring said car over here and register it in OH's name.

Sue

[Howie]

[quote user="Pickles"]

I think we can summarise as follows:

If you are UK resident it is illegal for you to drive a foreign-registered car in the UK. It may be a ridiculous law; it certainly is inconvenient; but it is the law. The fact that this is evidently being abused by being applied to non-UK-resident UK nationals driving correctly-foreign-registered vehicles within the UK is nothing short of a scandal.

There is NO period of grace if you are UK-resident and bring a foreign-registered car over to the UK (unlike in France, where you would have 30 days or possibly more depending on the vehicle's circumstances)

The chances of being caught are probably very low (but may possibly be increasing, from a very low base)

The result of being caught is extreme inconvenience (immediate seizure/impounding of vehicle) plus whatever fines/points/costs are applied

In bringing this subject up I only wanted to warn the OP that there is an issue with what he was planning on doing - hadn't really intended to cause a fuss ...

Regards

Pickles

[/quote]

Hi again.

No offence taken. Thanks very much for your help.

Howie.