The state of the Catholic church in France

[Jo53]

In our village there is mass about every 3-4 weeks, and yes, it's a few elderly people attending and no one else. But I don't think the church tries very hard. The village church presents a complete blank to the community. There is not even a notice on the door saying when the services are or giving a contact number for the local priest. The village school is catholic but no one from the parish has ever visited.

Jo

[Kitty]

The priest at the local French catholic church where I live (one hour from Bordeaux) has 19 churches to look after.

[tmto]

One reason why the RC church has a dwindling influence in France is the natural suspicion that the French have had towards religion since the Revolution. Before 1789 the French political system was based on 3 chambers: the aristocracy, the clergy, and the tiers-etat, all with equal political weighting. This meant that the clergy and the aristocracy, who had many shared interests, often sided together outnumbering the tiers-etat 2 to 1 even though the tiers-etat represented the vast majority of the population - hardly a fair or democratic system. The church in France was also extremely wealthy at a time when the many people were going hungry, which didn't add to its popularity.

Of course it's all a lot more complicated than that and there are many other factors involved but the RC church's dominance in French politics up until that time (for example, the King used religion to assert his authority and his "divine right" to absolutism) presumably has something to do with the strict separation between religion and state that we have today, and why the French are not a particularly religious bunch compared to other nations which may not have had cause to have such a grudge against the clergy.

 

 

[Missy]

>>>....presumably has something to do with the strict separation between religion and state that we have today, ....<<<

Why the state and the church are seperated in France today comes from a law passed by the French Assembly in the early 1900's which says that the church will have NO say in the running of the government. The government shall see to the people's needs first and foremost. The church will see to their spiritual needs only and government leaves it to the people to choose if they need the spiritual guidance of the church in their daily lives.

And about time too that this law came into being!... Otherwise you would have had many 'punaises de sacristie' stopping any kind of progress at all especially in the domain of medical science for the better welfare of the population.

I can cite many countries in the world where church/clergy has far too much influence in the governance of the country and where the population suffers terrible hardship with no hope of improving, never mind getting out of the hole they are in because of stupid doctrine/dogma or other religious beliefs ......... 

Oh dear!... [8-)] on my soap box again... I'd better go back to sleep.

[Rob Roy]

" ....can cite many countries in the world where church/clergy has far too much influence in the governance of the country and where the population suffers terrible hardship with no hope of improving, never mind getting out of the hole they are in because of stupid doctrine/dogma or other religious beliefs .........  "

One could say this is very true of the Islamic religion as well, if not ever more so - oh sorry I forgot - we are not allowed to criticise them are we.

[Missy]

[quote user="Rob Roy"]

" ....can cite many countries in the world where church/clergy has far too much influence in the governance of the country and where the population suffers terrible hardship with no hope of improving, never mind getting out of the hole they are in because of stupid doctrine/dogma or other religious beliefs .........  "

One could say this is very true of the Islamic religion as well, if not ever more so - oh sorry I forgot - we are not allowed to criticise them are we.

[/quote]

I must stress that I use the word church/clergy to designate ANY religion/belief WHATSOEVER in the world, ABSOLUTELY NONE in particular ! 

They are all much of a sameness in their 'righteousness' ....

And sorry that I am that we can't criticise any of them....  

 

[St_Jacques]

This is only partly right - the only way you can be a married catholic priest is if you 'converted' to the RC church from another church where you were already an 'ordained minsiter'. The most famous example of this has been the number of former Anglican 'priests' have were recieved by the RC church following the vote to 'ordain' women as 'priests' in 1992. Even then there was and is no guarantee that these married men will be ordained catholic priests as each individual case is referred to the Vatican itself.

I myself trained for the Anglican ministry but left before being ordained accordingly I am not permitted by church law to become a catholic priest (I am married with a 4 yr old and 1 on the way) but I am very satisfied in my ministry( both as prison chaplian and in the parish) as an ordained catholic Permanent Deacon.. The Permanent Diaconate is quite popular in France too!

Dale

[Deimos]

[quote user="supersid"]hi!  all;  interesting to hear referance to    HIV + condoms  ! in south africa our president - educated at a top british univarsity tells the nation that sex does not transmit aids. i am from natal in RSA + the last i heard that the population there was 70% HIV.????    sid hamba kahle.    [/quote]

I wondered which “planning official” decided to put a condom machine immediately opposite the main entrance door to the church in the local town.  Are people meant to use the machine on the way in or way out ?

A bit more seriously, I do question the benefits aspects of the catholic church are providing to mankind.  From what I read it seems their stance on condoms is helping the spread of AIDS in some countries.  I also question the need for the wealth they seem to have accumulated.  I’m sure at school we were taught “And again I say unto you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God".  Puts Pope et al at some disadvantage ?

 

Ian