Conspicuous by their absence.

[Cerise]

Books in people's houses.  All English friends have loads, French friends rarely have any.

Dog training classes.  The only one I can find is miles away and the training methods pretty harsh.

[hoverfrog]

so true about the books!

Just why are books in France so dear???

[Catalpa]

So that only a wealthy elite can afford them? [:D] Cerise, as a volunteer librarian in France, I know has experience of who should / should not have access to books. [:P]

I suspect those of us who don't see books in the homes of French people we know (and it's true, we don't) are mixing at the "French equivalent of working class" level of society. Which I'm not knocking... just analysing.

It is something that intrigues me - with the likes of the remaindered book shops on most high streets in England (and I assume in Scotland, Wales and Ireland), companies like thebookpeople.co.uk and psbooks.com, the 30%+ off even new books at Amazon... the UK has book ownership within the reach of almost everyone.  But in France... even the second-hand books on Amazon.fr are usually the same price as the Amazon offer. And the Amazon offer is usually only 5% or 10% off the bookshop price.

Edit:

I've just thought of two French acquaintances who do have books: one

is a retired fonctionnaire who writes histories of the area and the other is a

retired Parisien who did something corporate during his business career.

[Cassis]

The books are dear because no-one is allowed to discount the publisher's jacket price, which they are free to do in the UK.  This means the publishers can fix prices high and you never get unsold stock 'remaindered' or sold cheaply by the likes of Sussex Stationers; and the big booksellers can't negotiate big discounts on larger orders.  The high price of new books maintains the value of second-hand market. 

This used to be the law in Britain until a few years ago.

[chessfou]

In fact both Amazon and the major supermarkets usually discount all books BUT they are legally constrained to restrict the discount to 5%.

The two principal reasons for the (comparatively) high price of French books is:

(1) VAT applies here (not in UK);

(2) French language means (on average) a smaller market and, therefore, a higher unit cost to begin with.

[Teamedup]

Cassis, so what about these places like Book'In who do sell cheap books?

The first french paper backs I bought were always in large print, which always seemed odd to me at the time and I never found any proper paperbacks. Not that large print is a bad thing, I rather like it now.[;-)]

[5-element]

Re. price of books: I am always a little puzzled when people say how expensive French books are. I presume you are talking about paperbacks. How much are paperbacks in the UK these days??? The ones I see are never less than 6.99, 9.99, 12.99 = i.e. the cheapest about 10 euros...

The french paperbacks that I buy and read are not more expensive, on the contrary: collection Folio, Livre de Poche, J'ai Lu, etc...- even a dirt cheap collection, Librio at 1.44 euro, with many classic texts... Could anyone please explain, maybe those who find French books expensive are talking about hardbacks? Or about specialised textbooks? I really would like to know.

[chessfou]

A good example is Michelin France 2007.

Official price €24 (= ca. £15.99).

Amazon.co.uk - £10.55 (34% discount)

Amazon.fr - €22.80 (with maximum 5%)

But imagine what the UK price would be as/when/if VAT is applied to books (it has been threatened often enough and would be in line with EU harmonization).

[Cassis]

[quote user="Teamedup"]

Cassis, so what about these places like Book'In who do sell cheap books?

[/quote]

Sorry, never heard of Book'In.  Whereabouts in France are they?  I can't find the name on the Internet. 

I was told by a French bookshop owner that they have to sell by law at cover price.  Maybe they were wrong, if there are discount sellers in France. Obviously wrong if they are allowed up to 5% discount as stated (though that's a lot less than the discount on cover prices commonly seen in the UK). Maybe the books that Book'In sell are out of print.

I have seen some massively discounted books but they were English language novels, in LeClerc of all places, going for 20 cents each. [:)]

[RumziGal]

[quote user="5-element"]

Re. price of books: I am always a little puzzled when people say how expensive French books are. I presume you are talking about paperbacks. How much are paperbacks in the UK these days??? The ones I see are never less than 6.99, 9.99, 12.99 = i.e. the cheapest about 10 euros...

The french paperbacks that I buy and read are not more expensive, on the contrary: collection Folio, Livre de Poche, J'ai Lu, etc...- even a dirt cheap collection, Librio at 1.44 euro, with many classic texts... Could anyone please explain, maybe those who find French books expensive are talking about hardbacks? Or about specialised textbooks? I really would like to know.

[/quote]

New books always seem to be very expensive in France, even in paperback.

The new Harry Potter book is £9 (13 euros?) on Amazon.uk, but is 22 euros on amazon.fr.   The last Harry Potter was 28 euros in France.   

 

 

[Catalpa]

I immediately looked for Book'In as well, but couldn't find it.

You are right, Veritable Sossidge, I forget what an impact the end of the Net Book Agreement has had in the UK. Even so, that was 10 years ago and I remember haunting remaindered book stores (though there were not as many) for at least 10 years prior to that. The zero VAT rating in the UK also has an impact. Is VAT on books in France the full 19.6%?

Assuming it is the full whack, then, Element-5, taking 20% off the price of French books does bring some paperbacks down to more comparable to French vs UK prices. And yes, I know there are the cheapie paperback ranges, but they don't seem to have the cover breadth of titles that you'd find in a Waterstones, for eg. As far has hardbacks go, then yes, probably French / UK prices are more closely comparable as a hardback novel in the UK would cost maybe £18 or £19 full price.

[5-element]

[quote user="RumziGal"]

New books always seem to be very expensive in France, even in paperback.

[/quote]

I borrow new French books from the mediatheque, and buy all my English books (current paperbacks) from the monthly "Le Book" in Gabian, at 1 or 2 euros each. No wonder I am out of touch.

[daisymay]

The loi de Jack Lang prevents discounting of books by more than 5%. They say it accounts for the large numbers of non-chain bookshops in France. Myself, I am a book addict. The internet is great but the feel and portability of a book is something else.

[chessfou]

[quote]Is VAT on books in France the full 19.6%?[catalpa][/quote]

No, it is (unless it has changed recently) 5.5% which is about par for the EU  - Germany 7%, Finland 8%, Austria 10%, Denmark 25%! were the expensive ones, especially compared with 0% which applies only in the UK and Ireland (albeit I know not what's what in the "post 15" countries).

[Chancer]

After starting this thread I saw my first scrap wood bonfire on Sunday.

I am still waiting to find someone hand washing their car.

[hoverfrog]

I hand-washed my car - and had that feeling at the back of my neck that I was being watched!

Bonfires are common here (in the season, of course!)

What really put the neighbours at unease (if that's a proper phrase!) was the fact that I put flowers BEHIND the house where no-one would see them! Well I could see them, and I plant flowers for me - not to impress the neighbours! The numbers of locals taking a stroll down the rural chemin behind our propety increased dramatically, so much so that this year I have plans to have more than the untidy few herbaceous plants of last year, and really get them talking :)

[YCCMB]

[quote user="5-element"]

Re. price of books: I am always a little puzzled when people say how expensive French books are. I presume you are talking about paperbacks. How much are paperbacks in the UK these days??? The ones I see are never less than 6.99, 9.99, 12.99 = i.e. the cheapest about 10 euros...

[/quote]

 

Tesco: All paperbacks in the top 50 current bestsellers £3.73, and most current bestselling hardbacks around £8. Oh, and you can order the new Harry Potter for £8.87.

I do find French language textbooks much cheaper in France, but as they're for a specialist market and they're imported into the UK from France, that's hardly surprising.

 

 

[Chancer]

[quote user="hoverfrog"]I hand-washed my car - and had that feeling at the back of my neck that I was being watched! Bonfires are common here (in the season, of course!) What really put the neighbours at unease (if that's a proper phrase!) was the fact that I put flowers BEHIND the house where no-one would see them! Well I could see them, and I plant flowers for me - not to impress the neighbours! The numbers of locals taking a stroll down the rural chemin behind our propety increased dramatically, so much so that this year I have plans to have more than the untidy few herbaceous plants of last year, and really get them talking :)[/quote]

Is it a just a coincedence that the numbers have increased?

Are more people passing to appreciate your floral display?

OR! Has word got out "you must walk down there and see what those crazy rosbif's have done in their BACK garden"?

[hoverfrog]

definitely the latter - people who knew me were coming up to me in the street and saying "I hear you've put flowers BEHIND your house?" in an incredulous tone :)

[Chancer]

[quote user="hoverfrog"] Bonfires are common here (in the season, of course!) [/quote]

Actually that was what was in the back of my mind when I first posted.

Is there bonfire season (like le chasse)? or any restrictions, not on sundays etc?

[Cassis]

I hope not.  I had a corker of a bonfire today.

[hoverfrog]

we're not allowed bonfires in the summer when it's dry and hot - the mairie issues an edict, and pins it to their noticeboard!

You're not supposed to bonfire on a Sunday or a holiday/fête day, but lots of people get away with it - a bit like making lots of noise during lunch-hours on a Sunday!

[English Eccentric]

[quote user="Cassis"]The books are dear because no-one is allowed to discount the publisher's jacket price, which they are free to do in the UK.  This means the publishers can fix prices high and you never get unsold stock 'remaindered' or sold cheaply by the likes of Sussex Stationers; and the big booksellers can't negotiate big discounts on larger orders.  The high price of new books maintains the value of second-hand market. 

This used to be the law in Britain until a few years ago.
[/quote]

We used to live/work in the Charente-Maritime up til 1998 - at that time there were discount bookshops in (as I recall) La Rochelle and Rochefort at least, but the majority of the discounted books (mostly non-fiction) used to appear regularly at some of the markets; particularly Royan on a Sunday, and the same trader was usually at St Pierre d'Oleron during the summer months too. A return to the area in 2003 found the stall still at Royan market. Now we've just got a place in Manche & have yet to find any, but I'm still looking!

Runner beans (change of subject!) - we used to grow them up the back of our mobile home when we worked in 17.  We'd get crowds of French people stopping & staring at them all the time, as if they'd never seen anything like them before!

[Cassis]

[quote user="English Eccentric"]

[quote user="Cassis"]The books are dear because no-one is allowed to discount the publisher's jacket price, which they are free to do in the UK.  This means the publishers can fix prices high and you never get unsold stock 'remaindered' or sold cheaply by the likes of Sussex Stationers; and the big booksellers can't negotiate big discounts on larger orders.  The high price of new books maintains the value of second-hand market. 

This used to be the law in Britain until a few years ago.

[/quote]

We used to live/work in the Charente-Maritime up til 1998 - at that time there were discount bookshops in (as I recall) La Rochelle and Rochefort at least, but the majority of the discounted books (mostly non-fiction) used to appear regularly at some of the markets; particularly Royan on a Sunday, and the same trader was usually at St Pierre d'Oleron during the summer months too. A return to the area in 2003 found the stall still at Royan market. Now we've just got a place in Manche & have yet to find any, but I'm still looking!

[/quote]

Law 10th August 1981: the only people allowed to (legally) obtain a discount of more than 5% of the publisher's price are:

- Les associations

d’élèves, d’étudiants et de parents d’élèves « facilitant l’acquisition

de livres scolaires pour leurs membres » ;

- L’Etat ;

- Les collectivités locales ;

- Les établissement d’enseignement et de formation professionnelle ou de recherche ;

- Les syndicats représentatifs ;

- Les comités d’entreprises ;

- Les bibliothèques qui accueillent du public pour la lecture ou pour le prêt.

Even if there are traders flouting the law in certain places [;-)] it

does not negate the effect of the law in general in maintaining high prices.

[quote user="English Eccentric"]

Runner beans (change of subject!) - we used to grow them up the back

of our mobile home when we worked in 17.  We'd get crowds of French

people stopping & staring at them all the time, as if they'd never

seen anything like them before!

[/quote]

Well, they wouldn't want to grow that foreign rubbish themselves, would they - they are called haricots d'Espagne!  [:D]

[English Eccentric]

Interesting - the shops I recall seemd very much along the lines of The Works in the UK, properly established etc.  I wonder if it could work legally if the publishers themselves had unsold stocks which they could then legitimately sell to outlets at a price below that at which they had previously been marketed, thus allowing the shops to discount a further 5% on that price if they so wished.  As for the market stalls, however......!