Dispute With Builder regarding 'extras'

[Tzio77]

I am currently in dispute with a local english builder, over alleged 'extras'.

These alleged 'extras' were never discusssed, no price ever agreed upon, nor any addendum to the devis ever signed stating I accepted this work as extra.

I have been in touch with the CLCV, who pointed me to this document http://www.facture-devis.fr/devis-mentions-obligatoires.html ( the note called 'Important', is, dare I say it, the important bit!

My questions are

1. Is a devis, written in English, enforceable under French Law?

2. From the above document my understanding is that artisans are required to discuss, and obtain a signed agreement from the client for any additional work prior to the work being completed. Therefore as this was not done, can I legally refuse payment?

Any comments would be helpful.

[Lizfjr]

I can answer the first question. The answer is yes definitely. I took an English person to court with a devis agreed in English (though I did translate it myself for ease of comunication).

My case was successful. Good luck.

[Gastines]

If you ever watch Sarah Beany's show on TV,you will notice virtually every time the client changes this and alters that and then wonder why the cost has gone from ten bob to twenty. To a builder any changes to plan are a blessing as well as an inconvenience. That's where you might as well give them an open cheque. Any alterations to the original plan ,whether building wise or different fittings should be priced ,signed sealed and settled before any work is started.

[cooperlola]

Three months after I agreed a devis for my new bathroom, the artisans arrived this morning to start work.  They had agreed to tile over the existing tiles but when they removed the old bath, found that the previous owner had not used waterproof plasterboard and thus they reckon I'll be better off taking down all the existing stuff and re-doing the plasterboard to protect the fabric of our house.  They have a point.  By the time I got home this evening, a devis for the extra work has arrived by e-mail and I am now in a position to decide whether I want to spend the extra or not.

It's not impossible for your builder to do these things correctly - if it's not signed and agreed, why should you pay?

[Tzio77]

To give you some idea of the arbitary nature of his claims for extras, for example

Relocating the fosse vent pipe. This move was a prerequisite to cutting a huge hole in the fabric of the building for new porte fenetres...how can it be 'extra', the porte fenetre could not have been installed without moving the pipe.

Charging 'extra' for skirting tiling. All of the original tiled floors had tiled skirting, the new kitchen floor is a direct like for like replacement, this was clear when trhe devis was signed.

He installed my woodburner, and is charging for 'extra' pipework. This is despite agreeing with him the lengths of pipework required and all of the necessary bends etc. all of which I provided.

Also remember I have written to him 3 times, asked him to justify the extras, and with regard to the additional pipework said that if he could provide me with receipts for the pipework I would consider paying. Guess what, I haven't had any response other than pay up or we go to court

[Tzio77]

As he appears to want me to take the issue to court, can anyone recommend an english speaking lawyer in Dept 16? or thereabouts?

[Gastines]

Not a good idea to give advice but-- Send a letter by recorded post,or via an Advocate,offering an amount you think fair for the work completed,to standard.in full and final settlement of his account.Sometimes you can lodge this cheque/bankers draft with the advocate. If he accepts,good,if he refuses let him take you to court.At least he will have some outlay and a long wait for ANY cash.Providing of course that you feel you have just cause for not paying the amount requested.!!!

Bonne Chance and let him lose some sleep over it.

[Tzio77]

He has already been paid more than 35000 Euros. The areas in dispute are for work not completed, work completed but not meeting building regs ( fosse vent fixed under the eaves and not in free air ) and for alleged 'extra ' work, which was never agreed to nor signed for.

Since July I have tried to engage him in writing, detailing all of my observations, I have sent 5 letters, most of which have been recorded, though none of my issues have been answered, he has simply adopted a bully boy approach.

What more could I be expected to do?, let's hope a court recognises I have tried to resolve the issue, whilst he has not.

[AnOther]

As Gastines says extras or changes, be they plus or minus, can often be the most profitable aspect of a job.

When working as a project engineer designing communications systems for oil platforms it was usually the case that once you had properly considered things like overall project impact, changes to drawings, technical documentation, production schedules, what have you, it would nearly always cost at least as much to take something out as it did to put something in and the actual cost of the actual item or facility was often relatively insignificant [:)]

[lostinfens]

Did you sat 35000 euros ---ARRRGGGHHH

I say again ARGGHHHHHH!!!

I am in dispute for about £750 (which is about half the money owed to me ) amd 2 of us threw up the shell of a bungalow in 2 weeks.

WTF????? are you people paying for out there?

ps the sum includes flight expenses. (jeez!)